doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 3" A.H. Fox?

I was going through my collection and trying to measure chamber lenghts. It seemed that my 1921 Fox AE is a 3" gun. And it has "3" stamped on the under side of both barrells, near the flats. Do three inch guns go back to 1921?

Three-inch shells have been around just about as long as cartridge shotguns have been around. Prior to repeaters, which needed a certain length shell to function reliably, there were a plethora of shell lengths. In my 1903 UMC catalogue there were 12-gauge paper shells 2 5/8, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch. The 16-gauge was available 2 9/16, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, and 3 inch. The 20-gauge was offered in 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, and 3 inch. In those days these longer shells didn't pack a heavier payload, but more and better wadding for a better gas seal which many serious Pigeon shooters thought to be an advantage. The first time I see the longer shells packing a heavier load was around 1912 for the 3-inch 20-gauge for the famous Widgeon Duck Club Parker Bros. guns and the J. Stevens A & T Co. pump gun. These 3-inch 20-gauge shells packed 2 1/2 drams equiv and 7/8 ounce of shot as opposed to the max load of 2 1/4 drams equiv and 7/8 ounce of shot in the standard 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shell!!! Several of the early Ansley H. Fox graded 20-gauge guns, circa 1912-13 were chambered for the 3-inch shell of that period.

We have found a goodly number of graded Ansley H. Fox doubles in all three gauges that were ordered with longer then standard chambers. However, none of these guns that have come to light were marked as to chamber length. With the A.H. Fox Gun Co. policy of holding chambers 1/8 inch shorter then the intended shell, a "factory" chamber for a 3-inch shell would actually measure 2 7/8 inch to the break for the forcing cone.

The only way to know if your gun left North 18th Street and Windrim Avenue chambered for 3-inch shells would be to gert a letter on it from the Savage historian -- For $40 Graded or $30 Sterlingworth (last prices I've seen quoted) you can get a factory letter on most any Ansley H. Fox shotgun (Philadelphia or Utica) from Mr. John T. Callahan, 53 Old Quarry Road, Westfield, MA 01085. The information exists on the factory work-order cards, probably 85+% of which still exist. Send him the complete serial number and a check, and he can do the rest. That would tell you the specifications of the gun when it left the factory.

Or, if you become a member of the A.H. Fox Collectors Association, Inc., you are entitled to one free graded gun factory production card look-up per year and additional look ups are $25. http://www.foxcollectors.com/ah_fox/content/

More likely marked for number three weight barrels, especially if marked on the barrels just in from of the flats. If it is a fairly light gun,under 7 1/2lb., almost for sure #3 weight barrels.
The only 3" Fox I've measured the chamber length actually measured about 2 3/4" because the HE had very tight chambers. I've heard that's pretty common.

Now that I reread your statement, if the 3 is on the bottom of the barrel tubes forward of the flats, Steve is right and that is the indication of 3-weight barrels.

Here is a picture of the barrel flats on a 12 ga Fox with factory 3" chambers and # 1 weight barrels. Best I can tell the chambers do measure 2 7/8". Gun is not marked anywhere as being chambered for 3" shells.

If the # 3 you are referring to is in the same area then as Researcher and Steve state this stamping is for the weight of the barrels. Mike

You may be measuring correctly and have a Fox with 3" chambers, as I do, but have a gun that, like mine, had it's chambers lengthened after it was built. I have an A grade, 32" Fox with 3" chambers. Fellow that I bought it from indicated that the chambers had been lengthened. My letter says nothing of 3" chambers.

Stan

What year was that one built, Mike?

Stan

Gun was shipped in May 1913.

Mike