doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Am I missing something on pressure?

I've patterned Hevishot. They make a variety of "weights" of it apparently but part of the whole idea of it was that it was to be heavier than lead--so you can use a smaller pellet size to achieve greater pattern density with the same degree of lethality. It patterns significatnly tighter than any lead load I've ever seen, including several premium buffered low-velocity and light shot-charge for the gauge loads. My 3" 12ga pumpgun that I use as a turkey gun with a regular factory choke easily has a 50 yard range, and that's being super conservative. The same gun with the best lead loads I could find after extensive patterning has a 40 yard range and that's stretching it.
Do I need the range? Not usually, but it never hurts me and has come in handy more than once. I don't have the luxury of always getting a bird that much closer and I don't have an unlimited amount of time--and there's not a ton of turkeys where I live. So for me, I have a place in my kit for a whomper of a turkey gun simply in the interest of a turkey dinner or two every spring. This HS stuff is also great because it turns a lighter 20ga gun into a humane 40+ yard turkey gun so you can carry a lighter gun around without limiting yourself at all compared to most 12ga's.

For the 1, sometimes 2 shells I fire every year at a turkey, why go to all the trouble or even potential danger of loading marginally (un)safe handloads? one box of 10 shells lasts me 5 years or more...that's $8 a year or less even at the ludicrously high prices charged for these shells. I ain't rich but I can afford that.

I'll jump back in here. I've patterned hevi-shot and also Winchester X-tended shells. They are the real deal and will outperform lead hands down. The reason why is numbers of pellets in the shell and the ability to shoot size 7.5's that hit like size 6's in lead, or size 6 Hevi that hit like size 5 lead. More pellets in the shell give better density downrange.

I can honestly say I've shot all the way thru Geese with size 5 hevi-shot. A 12 gauge 2 3/4" size 7.5 is deadly for ducks out to 40 plus yards all day long. In fact lots of folks are using that same load on turkey's with ultra tight turkey chokes. Nitro Ray is now making a 20 gauge load that is a turkey killer to an easy 40 yards each and every time.

All the above is a very specialized application and normally not needed. However, for a hard core turkey hunters, they want the ability to knock one down at 60 yards all day long if necessary. I pretty much have that covered with a Benelli SBE, scoped and rigged for the 50 yard shot and yes I do shoot factory hevi-shot loads or Winchester X-tended loads. They without fail will provide over 200 hits in a 10 inch circle at 40 yards.

Wait, you can't have it both ways. If HS #6 hits like lead #5, then HS must be heavier than lead and a 1 1/2 ounce load of HS must have fewer shot in it than a 1 1/2 ounce load of lead, resulting in less density of pattern. Let's not split hairs. Any good patterning heavy load of fairly small shot, lead or HS, will kill a turkey quite dead. Nitro Cartridge says that one is heavier than the other, some posters say the opposite, so they must be pretty close. Another poster says HS comes in several weights. I am willing to admit that either will penetrate the head of a turkey when propelled at 1100 FPS to 1250 FPS. If the shot is going through the head, why increase the velocity? Add shot load instead. That's why I prefer the 3 ounce Nitro Cartridge 1130 FPS load of #6 lead. It has the most shot, the thickest pattern, and probably the heaviest #6 shot available. If I were to want to shoot at a turkey's head at 60 yards, I would not think of another option.

I still believe there is some confusion on what Hevi-shot actually is. This is what Remington posted some time ago when they were loading their own shells using hevishot:

"Just what is Hevi-Shot? It is an iron-based projectile but gets its good press from the fact that it is alloyed with enough tungsten and a smidgen of nickel to weigh, pellet size for pellet size, slightly more than lead shot. Lead shot has a density of about 10.9 g/cc, while Hevi-Shot has a density of 12.0 g/cc. That makes Hevi-Shot about 10 percent more dense than lead shot across the board. That may not seem like a whole lot, but as a result, you know when you buy Hevi-Shot that you're getting a projectile at least as dense as lead and actually a bit more. This justifies the Environ-Metal registered statement, "Heavier Than Lead" when referring to Hevi-Shot.

Steel shot has a density of 7.8 g/cc, which means that Hevi-Shot is fully half again as dense as steel. This theoretically allows the hunter to use a Hevi-Shot pellet two and sometimes three sizes smaller to achieve the same lethality. This means a very significant increase in payload pellet count for Hevi-Shot over steel. This in turn translates into significantly higher available pellet counts downrange for taking game since Hevi-Shot also patterns as well or better than steel.

So Hevi-Shot offers the shotgunner the best of two very important factors in lethality and downrange terminal ballistics. First, Hevi-Shot boasts the highest per-pellet density of any shotshell projectile currently available. Second, Hevi-Shot offers superb patterns. These two in combination offer performance superiority that any ballistician or shotgunner would search for in a perfect world"

What the above means in the real world is Hevi-shot hits harder then anything else on the market using size against size. The biggest problem with it is its expense. It's damn expensive. That said, if you can find some of the old Remington loaded hevi-shot on closeout somewhere, buy them. They are that good and they are much cheaper then whats on the market now.

PS. Eightbore you are correct, they are overkill for most applications. However, if you only want to shoot a 20 gauge at everything you can absolutely kill any turkey out there with Hevi-shot in size 7 at 40 yards. That's virtually impossible with any other lead shell out there. Also, Hevi-shot can turn a 20 gauge into a very effective duck/geese slayer for sure.

The limiting factors on any shotgunning is the point at which you can no longer either hold a close enough pattern to ensure a hit, or no longer have adequate penertration. Generally speaking the denser the mat'l of which the shot is made the further from the gun these factors can be met. When No-Tox first became mandatory for waterfowl Steel was the only other game in town. Advise very quickly materialized for success to "UP" your shot size by two from what you had been using in lead, IE if you had been shooting over decoys with #6 go to #4 etc. Even then the lead was slightly superior. I have not kept up with HS, but when it made its debut it was noted as being heavier (Denser) than lead. It was suggested one could drop a size with it over lead.
To simply compare various shot of differing matl's only by Diameter doesn't paint a true picture. If you want to get the most #6's you can get in 1 3/4oz then shoot aluminum shot, just don't expect to Slay very many 60yd Toms with it.
I am not a dedicated Turkey hunter & for the few I have killed lead has served me well, but I would not with my current equipment (12ga 2 3/4") take a shot I thought was beyond 40yds & would really prefer it inside 35.

I believe at the distance of 60 yards it would be easier and more sporting to use a .22 Hornet, or something similar, with iron sights.

Exactly what I was thinking.

I guess the weight difference is enough to make the claim for advertising purposes...Truth is it should've been called Harder-Shot.

In real life the weight difference between a lead and a Hevi-shot pellet of equal size is next to nothing. I don't think a grain scale can weigh the difference....in a mass of pellets it weighs a little more.

I don't believe it impacts as much energy on what it hits as lead or Bismuth because it's so hard....It's like comparing a solid rifle bullets performance to a soft point.

I've shot lots of turkeys with both and I think it's fair to say Hevi-shot kills less humanely than Lead Shot.

A "hard core turkey hunter" doesn't take long range risky shots at such a majestic game animal....an idiot will "all day long".

Joe, I know you hunt turkeys a lot. At the risk of taking this thread off topic, why do you say HS kills less humanely? My experience has been that it does an equal job, it just does it a few yards farther from the gun...but I don't see as many turkeys as you so I'm interested in your reasoning. Thanks.