doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Am I missing something on pressure?

I guess I'm getting old, but big hot loads just wear me out thinking about them. I've gotten to the point where if a standard 12 ga. load is supposed to be something like 1 1/8 oz. at 1200-1250 fps, and that doesn't kill them, move on to a 10 ga., or learn to shoot, or get sneaky in the field. Don't start setting off bombs to make up for shortcomings.

ps - don't get me wrong, I'm not adverse to putting an extra 1/8 oz in every once in a while if I'm in a bad mood. Everyone has their little failings.

Was up at RST the other day and talking about Turkey loads. The recommend that I just shoot their 1 1/4 oz loads of size 6 at 1,200 FPS out of my older guns. Pressures are still very light and they said they will certainly do the job at 35-40 yards out of normal .040 constriction out of either my old Parker VH or my Fox Sterlingworth. Wasn't a hard sell at all, and I left with three boxes of those, plus some 20 gauge spreader loads and some size 7 (yes 7) 16 gauge loads. Those guys up there supply some really nice shells that work well with my kind of guns.

PS. Went back and looked at some older posts of the fellow who sent these shells in for testing. Looks like these were the second lot he sent in. First lot had an average pressure of (17998 psi) and he had to rework the load to bring it down to the current 12,500 PSI. BTW, his gun is a Winchester model 1300. I imagine that your shoulder would know it when you touched off those 18,000 PSI loads.

I would think what is missing are a few neurons in the fellow's head.

JC

The pressure figures mentioned are off the scale for intelligent use. 16,000, even 12,500 is not reasonable in a 12 gauge sporting gun. As Tut knows after visiting the wonderful RST testing room, not all pressure test guns are big bad cannons like we see in proof houses in GB.

I just blew up the spec sheet. Is the loader fellow confusing the 160 grains of "PSB" buffer listed on the load sheet with 16,000 PSI? I guess now that we know he is shooting 1 3/4 ounces plus buffer in a 12 gauge shell, the 12,500 PSI doesn't sound so "off the scale", considering one shell per turkey. I would shoot that load in a safe gun. I think the load could be brought down to SAAMI specs with a slower powder and a hair less velocity. Velocity shouldn't be critical when shooting at a standing turkey's head. The Winchester factory loaded 1 7/8 ounces of buffered lead #6 which should have a whale of a lot more pattern density in it than 1 3/4 ounces of #6 hevi-shot. I see boxes of those shells at gun shows occasionally. I would like to have patterned some of them in my old 3 1/4" chambered Fox with long .042 and .043 chokes.

Bill,

The 16,000 PSI loads readings were the average of the first group of shells he sent off for testing. This person has a very simple goal. He's trying to kill turkey's at 60 yards with homemade hevi-shot loads. Not sure if he intends as some point to sell these shells to other hunters.

FWIW, There's a Company named nitro out there that does custom turkey loads that are used by all the Pro Staffers from Primo's, Knight and Hale, etc etc. Nitro Ray (the owner of that company) has been able to keep the pressures in the safe range by carefully controlling all facets of loading. Those nitro shells are the real deal. BTW, a box of 25 shells runs well over $100. They even make a special choke that is used in conjunction with those shells.

Tom, I am very familiar with the Nitro Cartridge Company and their turkey loads. I used to dealer for them. What NCC understands is that it doesn't take velocity to kill a turkey at 60 yards, it takes pattern density. Their 3 ounce ten gauge loads use lead shot, not the wasteful hevishot, to make these loads up. Hevishot burns up pellet count at the expense of higher pressure, a lose-lose situation. Hevishot is used when lead is illegal. NCC loaded the 3 ounce ten gauge load down to about 1100 fps. If it had been 1250 FPS, it would have been about the same as the 1100 FPS load at 60 yards at the expense of pattern density and pellet deformation. I won't mention recoil, since it isn't a factor in turkey hunting. I can't imagine what the pressure would be in a three ounce load if it were propelled at 1250 FPS. NCC knew what they were doing. I could have bought enough NCC turkey loads to last a lifetime for less than it would cost me to work up and test one inferior load on my own reloader. The person who is working up that 60 yard turkey load is coming from the wrong direction and using the wrong gun. I have a $400 ten gauge that shoots a 60 yard pattern with steel shot that would kill a turkey before the shot got to him. Ask me to show you the patterns next time I see you.

When I was selling Nitro Cartridge shells, I was buying short Bismuth tens in plain white boxes of 25 for $37.50 as I recall. No more at that price. My statement in the last post about Hevi Shot burning up pellet count at the expense of pattern density was apparently incorrect. The NCC chart shows Hevi Shot is 107 grams per ounce against lead which is listed at 135 grams per ounce. I mistakenly thought Hevi Shot was heavier than lead. I would still use the 3 ounce NCC #6 lead load before loading my own.

Eightbore, have you patterned HS to compare with lead? I've never used the stuff, not being a waterfowler and not hunting upland game very often where nontox is required. However, my understanding is that HS patterns extremely tight, which might make up for at least part of the advantage in pellet count of a heavier lead load. That being said, whenever I've patterned buffered lead, it also delivers very tight patterns through tight chokes.

No, Larry, I have not patterned Hevi Shot. I have a lifetime supply of ten gauge 1 3/4 ounce steel loads that pattern better than any big shot load I have ever patterned. I'll just keep on using them.