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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,278 Likes: 11
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,278 Likes: 11 |
you expect ME or most anyone else here to re-create chapters of exposition that are readily available in any number of libraries or book dealers???? I didn't WRITE the fooking book, I read it. Just like you can. You gotta lota balls dumping on people that answered your question with a ref to a learned work. Your concept of passing the buck is prolly the most whining excuse for not researching I've seen. If you wanna feel hurt cuz someone told you to do it yourself I suggest that maybe you should get your mama to read it for you.
have a day
Dr.WtS
Last edited by Wonko the Sane; 07/23/10 08:28 PM.
Dr.WtS Mysteries of the Cosmos Unlocked available by subscription
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 192 |
No Wonko I didn't expect you to do. Others managed it just fine however.
Well rather than letting this disolve into juvinile insults and idiocy, I'll just concede to the teacher who doesn't teach and the one who can tell people where to find answers in books but evidently can't paraphrase an idea into two or three sentences.
Is that a librarian?
American by birth, Texan by grace of God.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Are shot strings the same in California and Texas ?
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
Base theory is right, but we need to clean up the math. We have to get a SWAG of the angular velocity of the shotgun. That, not linear velocity of the target, is the needed number. We will, however, get it from the target's linear velocity. Note, these are approximations, not exacting calculations. We need only have a good approximation to understand this issue. OK, lets take a reeeeealy fast bird, say 100 feet per second (over 60 mph) in close, say ten yards (30 feet). The angular velocity of the bird would be approximated by 360 degrees divided by the time the bird would require to fly one lap. The circumference of a 10 yard circle is 2 X pi X radius = 2 X 3.14 X 30 feet = 185 feet. 185feet/ 100 feet per second = 1.85 seconds. 360 degrees/1.85 seconds = 195 degrees per second. The shotgun barrel must match this angular velocity or a little faster. A 1 inch shot charge will transit the muzzle in 1"/1200 fps = 1"/1200 fps x 12 in/ft = 1"/14,400 ips = 0.00007 seconds. The angular shift in the direction the barrel is pointing between the exit of the first pellet and the last pellet is 195 degrees per second X 0.00007 seconds = 0.01 degrees = 0.01 degrees X 60 MOA/degree = 0.4 MOA. Riflemen will tell you that 1 MOA is approximated at 1" at 100 yards. So, 0.40 MOA = 0.4" at 100 yards or about 0.2" at 50 yards. Ergo, the shot pattern is bent by the swing of the barrel, but only a trivial amount.
Math check from all interested would be appreciated.
Last edited by Rocketman; 07/24/10 01:45 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,812 Likes: 124
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,812 Likes: 124 |
I haven't read all of these posts. I am too old and too lazy to worry about so many technical things like the pellet at the top of the shell being undeformed and the one down in the bottom being un-undeformed. I just look at it this way.... when you are driving your car down the steet and a little kid runs out in front of your car, do you think "Oh my!! There is a little kid and I am going to run over him!! I have to take my right foot off of the gas pedal and put it on the brake to stop the car!" OR, does that little computer in your head do the whole thing for you- faster than you can even think about it? Same way with shootin' guys. Just practice and let that little computer take over for you. The more you practice, the better that computer works. But when you start throwing deformed shot, patterning boards, changing guns and other bullcrap into the works, you usually end up short circuiting that little computer. NSBM!
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,395 Likes: 107
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,395 Likes: 107 |
Phideaux, perhaps the best information contained herein is the recommendation that you get, and read, Brister's book.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Now that's thinking with yer dip stick Jimmy.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,047 Likes: 54
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,047 Likes: 54 |
Bravo, Don (Rocketman). That covers it nicely without any of that cosine stuff.
The gist of Brister's data is that from the viewpoint of the target, the shot cloud looks quite a bit different than what you see on a stationary pattern board.
If this stuff doen't interest you, some of us would invite you to spend your leisure time elsewhere. It's a big net, go someplace that tickles your fancy.
"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,151 Likes: 208
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,151 Likes: 208 |
A recommendation that someone procure and read Brister's "Shotgunning, the Art and the Science" is the best thing to appear on this thread. It is available amazingly cheap, and is immensely entertaining and educational. Brister is a hero to the shotgunner, wrote of blood sports, including flyer shooting, in the mass media as well as the outdoor media, and was winning money with a shotgun in the last month of his long life.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,278 Likes: 11
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,278 Likes: 11 |
Rocketman - your calcs were run at ten yds. The angular displacement of the target at 50yds at the same speed is not the same.
HTH
Dr.WtS
Dr.WtS Mysteries of the Cosmos Unlocked available by subscription
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