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4 members (GMCS, LRF, Southern Sport, 1 invisible),
561
guests, and
6
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
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Forums10
Topics38,590
Posts546,773
Members14,425
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Most Online1,344 Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,642 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,642 Likes: 1 |
Mike, thanks for putting numbers to my intuition!
JC
"...it is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance."ť Charles Darwin
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,227
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,227 |
JayCee, I have no life.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,047 Likes: 54
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,047 Likes: 54 |
Mike, I was tempted to take a stab at that myself but it involves trig. Having failed that class, and gone on to an ignominious non-mathematical career I'll defer to Don A.
The actual muzzle speed is a good bit less than target speed, and it's the angular rate of change that matters - or in our case doesn't matter because it's so tiny.
"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,278 Likes: 11
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,278 Likes: 11 |
Actually I am an excellent teacher and students, except slackers, love my classes and fill waiting lists. That is because not only do I provide basic information and refs, I challenge them to actually read and think on their own. You would likely not do well in my classes.
Dr.WtS
Dr.WtS Mysteries of the Cosmos Unlocked available by subscription
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,396 Likes: 107
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,396 Likes: 107 |
Phi, actually Wonko DID answer your question. All you needed to do was refer to the book he mentioned: Bob Brister's "Shotgunning: The Art and the Science". That's a must have, for anyone serious about shotguns and ballistics. In it, Brister shot at moving pattern boards (towed by his wife, behind the family station wagon), some of them at quite long range. He includes quite a few photos of the resulting patterns. The idea that moving the muzzle is going to do anything that will show on the pattern board is a bit like the old idea that you might be able to save your life if you're in a falling elevator by jumping just before it hits. The one event takes place too quickly, the other not quickly enough. But maybe, if you're an NBA star with extremely good "hang time" . . .
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,983
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,983 |
Several of us have answered your question, already. The comparison to a hose nozzle is quite ridiculous, to begin with. The water is coming out as a continuous stream. The shot exits the muzzle as a short mass, as shown in the pictures. If you could burp an inch long slug of water out of a hose, it would not be bent by moving the hose nozzle, either. You've had your answers, you're just refusing to read and accept the logic contained in them. Proving that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think.
> Jim Legg <
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 192
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 192 |
Phi, actually Wonko DID answer your question. All you needed to do was refer to the book he mentioned: Bob Brister's "Shotgunning: The Art and the Science". That's not an answer though L. Brown. That's passing the buck. I obviously don't have that book. That's why I asked the question. That's a must have, for anyone serious about shotguns and ballistics. In it, Brister shot at moving pattern boards (towed by his wife, behind the family station wagon), some of them at quite long range. He includes quite a few photos of the resulting patterns. The idea that moving the muzzle is going to do anything that will show on the pattern board is a bit like the old idea that you might be able to save your life if you're in a falling elevator by jumping just before it hits. The one event takes place too quickly, the other not quickly enough. But maybe, if you're an NBA star with extremely good "hang time" . . . THAT is an answer and I thank you. You've brought a new demension to this conversation. Perhaps if Wonko had taken the time to instruct rather than tell his student to "look it up" maybe certain comments wouldn't have been warranted.
American by birth, Texan by grace of God.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 192
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 192 |
Several of us have answered your question, already. The comparison to a hose nozzle is quite ridiculous, to begin with. The water is coming out as a continuous stream. The shot exits the muzzle as a short mass, as shown in the pictures. If you could burp an inch long slug of water out of a hose, it would not be bent by moving the hose nozzle, either. You've had your answers, you're just refusing to read and accept the logic contained in them. Proving that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think. Yes sir, NOW many people have answered the question (including yourself) and I thank you all. But only 7 people actually contributed to this conversation. Stan, Ben-T, Rocketman, ShotgunJones, L. Brown, Mike Campbell (after initially not contributing, later did contribute) and yourself. The rest of the 40 some odd posts are either passing the buck, making fun of me, or simply saying that my ideas are poppycock without explaining why. Can you see how those comments are not effective in answering my question? These people didn't contribute a single intelligable comment to this thread: KY Jon, Jimmy W, HomelessJoe, JayCee Wonko and you Jim (initially but did eventually contribute something of worth). Wonko and Kensal Rise passed the buck to other references that, if I'd had those books I'm sure would have answered my question. I'm sorry but I thought he point of this kind of forum was to have conversations like this and dispell rumors and myths. In my 129 posts on this forum I've been persecuted for God knows how many different things. You guys must like keeping your membership elite, because you've got to be running people off. I'm darn close to giving up on this forum myself. It's sad that people who can be so cool to talk to and have so much information to share can be so full of piss and vinegar.
American by birth, Texan by grace of God.
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Posts: 3,642 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,642 Likes: 1 |
My dear Phi,
I take umbrage at your comment. My only intended contribution was to make you think. Honestly intended and not wanting to offend or put off.
Sorry if my intentions were off mark.
JC
"...it is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance."ť Charles Darwin
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 192
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 192 |
OK JayCee. I can see how your posts were pretty innocuous. I'm sorry, I guess these other guys just had me in a bad frame of mind.
American by birth, Texan by grace of God.
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