doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Nobody knows! Need help identifying!

Giggle? Naaah, not really as I don't really know anymore about it than you do and you have it in your hands. With what you've described, it sounds as if you've confirmed what I think to have originated at the Georg Teschner/Wilhelm Collath facility. Have you attempted to insert a 20 bore cartridge? Does it drop in or experience some resistance at some dimension?

If could snap a pic of the standing breech which shows the firing pin holes. It's the front of the receiver where the barrels snug up to the action.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Hello,

The shotgun is indeed rare and I know I have seen something similar but I will have to do some checking. A good auction house is Greg Martin and the man you will speak with is Jeminson Beshears. He is very knowledgeable and may help you in its identification. Once I look at comparable firearms I will leave a message for you here.

Best regards

SemperFi0311

I took a few more pics for you to look at...again, thank you so much for all this wonderful info!
http://s146.photobucket.com/albums/r258/jessi_82/antiqueshotgun/

Thanks for the effort and for now I still hold that Wilhelm Collath finished it possibly for the trade? I'd devoted a little time to search for a craftsman with the initials "CFW"(possible "CEW"?) and I would guess that he was the craftsman that finished the tube set and mated them to the action. My next guess on his location would be time dependent in the fact that it is possible that he was located in Herzberg am Harz prior to say 1876 and he would more than likely have been Fr. Welcher/Welkner. The engraving sort of makes me think of Herzberg am Harz as they seemed to have a little more artistic flare and many times didn't hold to tradition. If it was made post say 1885, and the serial number 86XX might give some indication if a Teschner/Collath example as at one point, let's just use 1900 for example, they were noted as churning out 1000 examples per year. I think that in order to do this they were heavily sourcing the Suhl-Zella-Mehlis area. Christian Wackeß was active in the mid to late 19th Century in Suhl and may have contributed some effort but I can't say at all what is middle names were or if he had a lot of experience in tube making/finishing. The Werners of Suhl on the other hand had a history of being master craftsmen and in the mid to late 19th century had at least 1/2 dozen relatives involved in gunmaking covering all facets. Christian Werner was listed as a polisher/finisher but then again I don't know his middle names. I don't think the "W" of "CFW"(possible "CEW") is the town of the craftsman but rather his last name and when there are several craftsmen in the same family they sometimes tend to use 3 initials.

I sure hope Jeminson Beshears can solve the puzzle and if so my hat's off to him.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Once again, thanks for the info. My goal in posting here and other forums is for someone to tell me what I can expect to get for the shotgun when I sell it. I was layed off a few months ago and my family needs the money. If you had to put a price on it, what would it be?

Its tough to put a value on a gun without having it in hand. Ive seen plainer examples sold in the $700-$1100 range. I would guess the gun to be worth $750-$1750. Put it on a 14day gunbroker or auction arms auction with no reserve at the low side (or start it at 1 penny)and you will get pretty close to market value for it. Take lots of good pics and describe every part of the gun. Pretty gun, good luck... Ross

Berger Locks


Daly with "CFW" on tube. Friedrich Werner was listed as an owner of a Waffenschmiede in the 1920s.


So from these 2 pieces of data, I'd say that the longarm with HofBüchsenmacher Berger of Köten in Saxony design locks is on a central fire by design by Teschner-Collath and was sourced from Suhl. The screws on the sides are typical of the Berger design and are a stop for the springs. Each can be cocked individual; whereas, Dreyse's design had a single bar that would cock both.








J. Göhler of Berlin owned by Mr. T. Marjamäki


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Oh my goodness...that shotgun looks almost identical to mine! Thank you soooo much! Where did you find these pics? Was it for sale? If so, what are they asking? Still trying to put a price on it.

A fella in Russia has it with a quite a few more interesting pieces. I don't know the value. But both have Berger locks as per the screws on the sides. I've inspected a F. Dreyse this week and both locks are cocked and unlocked at the same time. So I'd say both are based on the Dreyse design with Berger locks and made by Teschner-collath. One interesting stamp on the circular lockup of the Dreyse was the stamp "Rand Schloss OP" if I have the spelling correct. On most of the Dreyse examples I've seen cartridge info was stamped on the circular piece.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Here's a Karl Berger(later Georg Teschner / Wilhlem Collath) at Safari Outfitters: http://www.safarioutfittersltd.com/EuropeanPage45.htm

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse