doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Opinions sought regarding sidelock over unders

To build something "different", how about a three barrel over under in something small like a .410. Three barrel shotguns are not unknown, but a vertical three barrel would be unique. In .410, it wouldn't be too deep. A friend built a three barrel triangular shotgun from scratch so don't do that. It has been done by more than one gunmaker.

There is also the "Quatro", so four is passe.

How about a Gatling? Oh, wait, the Alley Sweeper already did that.

that "new" thing is a bi7ch innit?

Remember Will Rogers? "the only thing new is the history you don't know"

rough one to beat,eh?

WtS

Another vote for a loe profile Cordy if it could be done though there may be patent on that action.

If it has to be a sidelock then look at the designs of William Baker, the man who invented the Lancaster 12/20, the Baker ejector and many other simple and rugged actions. His sidelock OU incorporates simple locks, the load bearing shoulders later incorporated in the Beretta SO line, and the Kersten fastener.

The English OU is unnecessarily complex because when it was developed for mild steel action bodies. All those multiple lockup points are not necessary with decent steels.

I have handled the very best OUs, Boss, Purdey, Woodward,Desenzani, Bossis, Fabbri, Famars etc. Once the novelty wears off none are as impressive as a Perazzi nor as rugged and as easy to service and fix. The Browning is a close second and neither are sidelocks.

OU design to be modern and trouble free needs to address the profile height, the forces direction axis, lock up and robustness. Guns that need to be babied and sent back to the makers annually etc are a pain. The most modern OU design out there is the Swedish Caprinus/Flodma. I would add the Ljutic just because it has managed to by pass the top lever spindle compromise, ie hollowing out the spindle to accomodate the firing pins. THe Ljutic has no top lever and spindle!

So if you can break the sidelock bonds and the "traditional" and "bench made" shackles you might want to look for modern designs that bypass the old problems.

Something different ? You'll have to go some to get by this sidelock pinfire 6 barrel gun.

For my money, a sidelock OU, solid rib, DTs, straight or Woodward grip, and 28-30" fixed choke non-monoblock barrels is the sexiest thing in two barrels. I have a Beretta S2 in the safe matching that description and I can't keep my hands off that gun.

Galazan gets a fair amount of criticism on this board, but not for being a fool or a bad businessman. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery and when he decided to make a production sidelock OU, he imitated the Beretta SOs. I can't guess the business prospects of your project, HH, but I would be paying close attention to that point if you are seriously considering this. (Perhaps he could also tell you how he evaded a patent infringement suit, too).

Sidelocks might be an anachronism, but the whole point of this board is celebrating anachronisms. Otherwise, we would all be shooting semis and talking about which gun cycles the fastest.

If my last name were Beretta, I would have the SO5 made as a long-barrelled 20 gauge as well, and would re-introduce a game gun SO6 for around $25-30k with solid ribs and fixed chokes.

English sidelock O/Us have a reputation of being light duty guns. Ask Dig.

If you are truly after the anachronistic feel, make it an external hammer sidelock U/O. That there is English speak, calling 'em an "under/over". Just calling it that won't likely make your external hammer gun sell any better, anachronistic, or not.


DIdn't we have a guy here, not too long ago, who was trying to develop an O/U, that was going the opposite way, a simple and kind of cheap gun with just a few moving parts?
I recall it being a bit "unpolished", to be kind, but he had a good concept, or three.
Whatever happened to him?

Best,
Ted

Ted,

Toschi makes or made an 'under/over' such as you describe, not sure one of them ever made it to the states.

Handled a Cordy 20 O/U back in the 70's that felt at least as nice a wand as any ASEL 20 Beretta. At the time that Cordy brought many times what an ASEL 20 was going for. I really wanted to both shoot it and to get the calipers on it, but got to do neither. FWIW, the ASEL 20 Berettas' were/are the smallest framed 20 O/U's that I know of that could be called 'production' guns.

All above just middle of the night tangent thots; I do know that gauge wasn't mentioned. Anyway, more power to anyone wishing to take on the task of building a high grade double gun.

Here is a Cordy OU for sale at Champlin's:

Cordy

I agree, not much looks and feels better than an O/U, sidelock, double triggers, straight stocked to the owners dimensions. Woodward made some stunning examples as did Boss, but usually with a single trigger.

Not wanting to spend upwards of $50K for one of these gems to take afield, I have on order a Rizzini, 28 bore, DT, straight stock with 3X wood. Now this is not a best gun by any stretch, and it is side plated to boot. However the cost of this semi-bespoke gun is about $5K and delivery time is about six months.

I am not an expert, but this rather inexpensive designed Rizzini might hold some ideas or design towards your goal of building your O/U. Good luck.