doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Post-War Custom Gunmakers

Michael has mentioned several times that someone needs to research the post-war custom gunmakers, much as he did with the pre-war makers. I am not suggesting that I have the time, knowledge, or expertise to do it. Just for the sake of conversation, if someone were to take on this daunting task, who would be the top 10 makers that should be on the list, and why? Not necesarily the 10 best, but rather 10 most significant. For example, Steven Dodd Hughes should be on it not only for the quality of his work, but for the exposure he has given to custom gunmaking through his writing and photography. Gary Goudy, for his longevity and prolificity. (not sure if that is a word, he is very prolific, puts out a lot of work) Steve Heilmann for his outstanding quality. And of course Jerry Fisher and Tom Burgess, and Leonard Brownell did some lovely and innovative work, and Dale Goens, and of course Dave Miller, and D'Arcy Echols, and......

So, lets have some fun with this, who and why. Mr Hughes, I think we would all love to see your list. There have been so many great builders in the last 60 years, where would you ever start.

John

I'd have to add the name of Maurice Ottmar to your list because he could do both metal and wood well. He was also not married to one speciphic style but did several different ones well.

On top of all the talent he possessed, he was a first-class person.

I would second that!

Craig

While I'm more than flattered... my list of criteria would be very different than most, I'm too heavily influenced by inside knowledge to be impartial. I am curious to see what others think for sure! and may add some comments.

I can say that I've been fortuate to know and visit with Fisher, Tommy Burgess, Len Brownell, Monte Kennedy and Maurice Ottmar all of whom are/were first class individuals and hugely influential on my approach and attitude towards the trade. Jerry Fisher turns 80 this year and is an icon in my eyes!

Jerry Fisher, his long-time hunting buddy Jim Carkoff and myself with dead deer near the Musselshell River, 2007(?). Not surprisingly, Jerry's buck was the trophy and shot with his worn-out 7Mag. He is quoted as saying the rifle has taken, " a whole herd of Mule deer...". (T. Crawford Photo)

The worn-out 7Mag.

Would depend upon the criteria. 'Most influential' would HAFTA include Roy Weatherby and Parker Ackley to name only 2 (not my favorites but certainly QUITE influential). 'Most aesthetically pleasing' OTOH would certainly NOT include either man's name.

However 'most aesthetically pleasing' is largely subjective, while 'best workmanship' often ignores the beauty aspect. For instance Alvin Linden's inlettng and fitting was supposedly actually mediocre while the appearance was apparently quite stunning. Frank de Haas was certainly one of the most influential postwar smiths and his designs & executions show excellent mechanical quality but IMO his aesthetics suck.

There are a number of smiths whose work is impeccable but also is largely derivative. Do you value a cookie-cutter copycat who does impeccable knockoffs at a more-admirable level than a truly influential innovator whose execution may have been only average? How about someone whose work is 'far out' (a la Weatherby) but is also impeccable (La Bantchni[sp?])?

One of my personal favorites is Ed Webber. His examples of the Hagn and Sharps 1877 in Steve Hughes' book are, IMO, 2 of the 4 best-looking rifles in the entire book as well as 2 of the best I personally have ever seen in photographs anywhere.
Regards, Joe

Would the Remington 40X be considered a custom rifle?I think some of the best rifles in the world have come from Remingtons custom shop.
Tom

Aron Gates from here in San Diego had a national reputation, What a craftsman, what a gentleman!!

The following did some work pre-war, but are mostly considered post-war gunmakers. I would suggest the list include Frank Pachmayr, Paul Jaeger, W.A.Sukalle, Lenard Brownell, Al Biesen, Monte Kennedy, P.O. Ackley [MORE FOR HIS CARTRIDGE DEVELOPEMENT,HE WAS ONLY A SO SO GUNMAKER], Fred Wells, Pete Grisel, and Maurice Ottmar.

I really think you have to limit the scope of years more than just say post-war if you are going to limit it to the "top 10 makers" or even the "10 most significant". We are talking about a time span of 60 years here. The craft has advanced so far that it is hard to believe it can get much better as far as quality is concerned. A person is often splitting hairs over who is really the best or as I often think, "As good as the best".

If a person is lucky enough to own the book; Contemporary American Stockmakers by Ron Toews, which came out in 1979 I believe, you are pretty much splitting those 60 plus years in half. I have leafed through this book many times and am in awe of the work these people who are represented in the book did at that time which was over 30 years ago. And yet to be fair, if you were picking 10 craftsman over a 60 plus year period of time, you might eliminate the better part of those represented in that book from the first 30 or 35 years of the period.

My brother and I had an interesting chat with mkbenenson at the Las Vegas show. He made the statement "Linden was not the best stockmaker but he wrote the book". We all agreed this was a great contribution to custom gunmaking as a whole. In thinking this over, there are probably some others in the sixty years who have made similar contributions. I'm not sure I'm ready to say Harry Lawson's stock design was a great contribution but it's obvious the monte-carlo stock was part of the history of the post-war era and perhaps someone can be traced as the one who started it. I heard Al Biesen once mention that there were a few stocks he had made that he would like to buy back to get them out of circulation. Evidently these were before he made some for O'Connor. The reason I bring All into this discussion is because of the very fact he had O'Connor writing about his custom rifles and was probably the best known maker at that time because of it, even though O'Connor had custom rifles done by many other makers.

I didn't plan on this getting so long but I just feel that the scope is far to wide. I'd really like for someone to make some smaller parameters, maybe SDH would consider trying to do it, as I think it would prove a very interesting subject. The one thing everyone needs to realize is personal likes and dislikes often enter into such discussions. I see nothing wrong with this as long as it is realized there are just simply opinions.

Every time I see a thread such as this I am reminded of what the late Bob Emmons once said with tongue in cheek:

I am the greatest stockmaker of all time.
I am the alpha and omega of stockmaking.
I have won all the stockmaking championships.
And, if I die no doubt the art of stockmaking will perish with me.

Thankfully we know that will never happen.

Idared, I love to be quoted as an authority !!! Wish it happened more often in my family .... Two comments: first since WWII there has been an immense proliferation of good riflenmaking. Before the war there were only a handful of really good makers, today they are legion. Second, unless one is a dealer in fine arms, most of us have not examined work by most of the new men. We depend on photos and the opinions of others whose taste we respect. For example, although I have been admiring custom rifles for decades at gun stores and gun shows, I do not think I have ever handled, in the wood and metal, rifles by Echols, Goudy or Ottmar. Yet these men are acknowledged at the top. So when we loudly prounounce our opinions we can be skating on pretty thin ice.