doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Gun hard to open. Any ideas?

Khanh:

If you are still having trouble, Kirk Merrington is in Kerrville.

A pleasant drive on a spring day.

Regards

GKT

Here is a picture to show what has to be done to open gun. There is a lot of pressure on the hammer cocking levers, as you can see it has to not only re-cock hammers but has to compress the Southgate ejector springs.


I don't know if your gun has the coil springs for the hammers or main springs like the ejectors. Not sure if one is harder to re-cock than the other.

Were a disproportionate number of guns having this problem made in Spain? Exactly half of the guns I have owned that were made in Spain had this problem and I have only had this problem with guns made there. Perhaps it is just a coincidence. It seems to me that in most cases I have read about online the first course of action has been to shorten the firing pins. I have personally experienced the problem with sidelocks and boxlocks, and with guns having both ejectors and extractors. All guns in question were made between the early 70's and the mid 90's. One gun would literally have to be broken over my knee to open if I used Winchester 209 primers. It was suggested that sometimes a harder primer can help mask this problem. I started using Fiocchi 615 and 616 primers and the problem went away.

Greg,
Thanks forgot Merrington was in Kerrville.

I appreciate the pics they are very helpful and informative.

I don't know if it is a Spanish issue. Anyone else having the same issue? I have four sidelocks by AYA, Ugetechea and have not ran into this before.

If the firing pin(s) too long or sticking in the fired primers, there should be a visible drag mark where it drags, coming out of the primer while opening. Then again, while we're having so many wild guesses, maybe the buttplate screws are too long.

Khanh, this is the gun that I had the most difficulty opening. Jim mentioned drag marks on the primers. That is very obvious in the right barrel although I was also seeing it most of the time in the left barrel. And it looks like there could be a headspace issue with this gun. You can see how the primers have marks from the striker disks. I believe when the pin hit the primers the shells moved forward until they bottomed out against a too deeply cut rim recess. Then on ignition the hull expanded and gripped the chamber walls allowing the primer to shoot backwards into the space that was created when the shell moved forward until it hit the standing breech. Those primers might make someone think they are looking at an issue of high pressure but that load is on the mild side for a 20 gauge (sub 9000 psi). Again I'd like to say that since doing nothing but switching to Fiocchi primers two years ago that gun hasn't been difficult to open one time and you can now open it with one hand. Is the gun fixed? No, but it didn't cost a penny compared to paying more than the gun cost to have someone try and fix what could possibly be the problem through a process of elimination of potential causes. Based on the fact that it is no longer a problem it is obvious the firing pins were the critical issue with this gun and I bet one or both of them are with your gun too.

Skip

Your rim cuts are too deep, at least for the rims on thise Winchester AA H....S... shells. Briley and likely others can install steel rings and recut the rimcuts shallower. I'm sure that would not be cheap. If using other primers takes care of it, that's surely the way I would go, too. I had a cheap, American made .410 that was the same way. I got it to quit by adjusting the hammers to cock a tiny bit sooner. The gun wasn't worth what remodeling the rimcuts would have cost. It was a something Empire Grade, as I recall.

Jim, the rim recesses look like they could be causing the problem and fortunately I didn't have to spend money for someone to fix that, then shorten the strikers, then adjust timing, and so on until the problem eventually was (or wasn't) corrected. I use AAHS, Winchester comp-formed, and Fiochhi hulls without a hitch. The only time the gun has been hard to open is when I used Winchester primers. Unfortunately until a couple of years ago they were the only primers I used so I don't know if changing would have helped a couple of other guns I had the same problem with. The idea to try a different primer wasn't mine. It was recommended by several people on another forum so I'm not the only one that has seen this problem go away by doing that.

Skip

Skip,

I have had the same results switching for Winnie's to Remington Primers. Most notable results were on an old Ithaca Flues.

Ken

That's a great tip, about the Fiocchi primers. I've used Winchester 209s for many years and was using them when I had the trouble described above. I'm hoping to get Remington primers, for my next supply. I'm told they work easier through PW loaders, which is the machines I'm using, now.