thanks for the help. i dug out some supplies and loaded s few in the 8000psi range to try out this morning, shoots quite nice,low recoil. haven't hit the patterning board yet. to see how they perform. i found a box of 1000 rem fig 8 wads in the barn so made 11/8 loads. i think i might order some TT buckshot for a varmint load.might have to re-stock an old 16ga N R Davis i aquired while searching my stuff i found a few hundred unfired 16ga hulls and a bunch of wads.worst thing about being an accumulator is i never remember what i have lol. thanks again gentlemen and happy shooting!!!!!