doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com scaled highwall

That may be quite reasonable given costs, but it makes that $1000 action that started all the fuss look a lot more appealing. And the $1300 actions from C. Sharps look better and better too.

Not everyone wants a thin side or a round top. Perhaps most do, but not all.

Actions cost a bunch - I don't think your estimates are out of line. But I don't think too many can afford them either. That is in the price range of Joseph Lozito and I wonder if he sells very many Borchardts for which he has many fewer competing producers.

If the revival of the mid-50s varmint rifle takes off, you might have a hell of a corner on a lucrative market. I don't know, but I wish you luck.

Brent

Mark,
There was a time when I got very excited about a new action, and or a new project. With several extra actions/blrd actions, It's likely to be a long time before I can finish them up.
I still think your best bet is to get one in Glenn's hands for a review. There has been so much hoopla about "soon to be available" single shot actions...

Right off the top of my head I know of the recent cast HW, a new Hepburn, Ballard reintro HW, a Ausy Farq, Ballard Farq promiced, the knifemakers Farq/break-open/?, Granite MT supposed modern SS...

Mark,

Having looked at your wedsite, you appear to have a machining facility almost second to none, and one that most of we amateur gunsmiths could only dream about, even after selling the wife into White Slavery to try and raise the amount of money such a set up would cost.

From a purely personal point of view, I have never been a fan of smaller versions of existing rifles,UNLESS they are made to train boys in the use of rifles. With respect the prices you have to charge for your work is likely to work out a tad expensive for a boys rifle.

The Winchester 1885 is in production be several manufacturers, so you have competition there, there is also a company producing 1885 kits for home gunsmiths.

There are two manufacturers of Sharps Borchardt rifles and actions with another in the offing, one is considerably less expensive than the other, but I have no doubt the cheaper model will work as well, if not better, than the original Sharps Rifle Co. product.

Ballards and some other single shot actions are produces in the USA and abroad. Some are frightfully expensive.

What is needed, is a competatively priced single shot action, made to high standards of accuracy, preferably based on one of the traditional American or British designs of the period 1870 - 1890.

There are several American companies producing modern replica's of US designs, but virtually none producing copies of the British single shot rifles of the period. From a personal point of view, I would like to see reproductions of Deely and Edge and Frazer single shot rifles, no one is making either. DeHaas's Single Shot Rifles and Actions has both these actions reported on. Original's bring premium prices. It's time a modern reproduction of these actions was available at a reasonable price for the single shot enthusiast.

An old saying applies here: if you can make a good quality action and sell it at a price your competitors may balk at, then you will get the sales. It's far better to sell a thousand with a reasonable profit margin, than a hundred or so with a 300% markup on your manufacturing costs.

Good luck with your enterprise,

Harry
(a wannabee gunsmith who left it 50 years too late.)

I may have missed something on the website, but am still not clear what the "scaled" action is to be. What scale (or "fraction of the size"???) of a hi-wall would it be? Or would only some parts be scaled down or up? Or am I misunderstanding the meaning of "scaled"?

We DO have the lo-wall which is a partly "scaled down" hi-wall? I assume Mark's new action isn't that....so what is it?

The Browning/Miroku "Low Wall" single shot is a scaled down version of their version of the "High Wall" and it seems pretty strong (Ken Waters' early concerns to the contrary, I have heard of no problems with the .243 and other high-intensity ctg. versions). Does anybody know how that reciever is manufactured? Investment cast? Machined from forging?

Clearly there are economic issues with any new action of this class and type. I hope we see it in the market soon, tho, in spite of all the barriers.

Thank you all

attempting to answer all in backwards order
clarity is difficult to achieve , starting with my own post

ACTIONS are 4140 or 8620
"BITS" or internal parts are tool steel
all heat treated by commercial specialists


I posted 2 pics on jpgbox per suggestion on this forum
hope it works ...


http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/9699_600x400.jpg

http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/9700_600x400.jpg





Mike Armstrong,

the website doesn't seem to mention action is around 90% size of a highwall all parts are scaled and modified
NOTHING fits an original
(this info should all be added to website, thank you )


if you go to jpgbox there r 2 pics

9699 is Harris highwall #1 (& so labeled) been shooting for
over a year and 1500+ rounds
9700 is Action comparison Winchester highwall and Harris
highwall on 1 inch grid
(a further attempt to address what I mean by scaled)
please advise if this answers your question and SDH

low wall is not a scaled highwall
at least not to me
it is a chopped highwall for lack of other word ... lowered ?

for the record I am chopping the right side only of my scaled highwall for the 22 Rim fire version only ... similar to Pope

Traditionally the lowwall was not used for high pressure rounds. Bad stuff happens and I don't want 40,000psi or more, inches from my face contained by a lowwall.
Imagine gun in "Anyone know the story behind this?" being a LOWWALL and your face , not my face thank you.

My gun is ready to market as a limited production piece with ALL the bells and whistles in the $7500.00 + price range
for a finished /sighted in gun.
have a Manufactures FFL , machines, programs, tested prototypes and ready to ship 1 or 2 of them out for review BUT
I have to choose price/finish level
the question I'm asking on this forum is if there is enough volume to try for the $1800.00 price range or go to castings and drop the price still more. You can buy a Russian over under for $400.00 or a Fabbri for a bit more, and many inbetween but you can't buy a Fabbri for $400.00, especially if i get there first. I'd rather make best quality but would
be happy being the next Bill Ruger/E. Reminton/ O Winchester
Just don't think this is the right product or that I'm the right person.


Harry Eales,

Never had a wife so i worked for industry for 30 years instead, which is why I'm just getting started now.
My highwall is 90% size and comes in around 7# w/o scope ... not so much boy/toy version as "right sized" to me.
MY OPINION ... those whom disagree won't buy and most of those whom agree won't buy either.

Someone else said maybe I made a mistake making what I like rather than what the market wants.
Yes, I can see how I've painted myself into a corner with action being to small for BPCS and big game gun.
BUT I've been playing with highwalls for decades and they are too big (In My Opinion) for small cartridges.

Of course if I made a full size action then it really would be one of the crowd.
If I was going full size, I'd want a REAL Winchester reworked by an ACGG artist or 2 to my specs... If I ever have the money it will happen.

You are correct about pricing ... the problem being Ruger / Browing pricing requires way more than a 1000 pieces
sold and the quality isn't best. Plus it takes a businessman and a lot of capital to get off the ground. If you make
a list of gun companies that went bankrupt and list of those that didn't I'm not sure it would be considered a wise
investment. Even though the guns are expensive the companies can't make a go of it. From the aspect of making a living there ain't no money in making guns.


SDH-MT

thank you

Gun is available.
I have a Manufactures FFL.
It is not a hand made concept gun.
this gun was made by me in my own shop with CNC machines
therefor it's as straight forward as me following my own process sheets and making more
parts manufacture is what I've done for decades

i'm ready and willing to make more
the challenge is figuring out if there is enough demand to justify mass production and therefor lower prices
looks like a resounding NO

based on posts so far looks like i send one to Glenn (if he is willing) and go through process of joining ACGG for metal work ... IF they'll have me based on their criteria
a guild member saw my finished gun and suggested the metalwork was close. the woodwork ... well lets say he was tactful and suggested I try for metalwork only

thanks again
Mark


BrentD

$1000 action sounds like a $650 casting and I am not qualified to address it's value.
The C. Sharps sounds like the best deal but I've never seen one to address it's value. A finished gun with upgraded wood might be the best value of all, if the $/ workmanship
ratio is there for you(again I've not seen one and I do not have the reputation to address the value).

Looks like i'll be building a few custom guns and people can have round or octagon tops, flat or thinside actions and anything else they want.

Others have agreed with you that there isn't enough difference between my scaled highwall and a full size one. When I go to shows i'll be sure to take a full size Winchester to help clarify that there is a real difference, especially in stock design, comb height, weight and handling.

thanks for the help
mark


thanks recoil rob for adding the link

Good job Mark, and thanks for clarifying!
I get the idea and hope you can find a market. I've been extremely fortunately to create/develop a market for the guns I wanted to make. That approach has also cost me in many arenas that normal folks consider accomplishments.
They're probably not for me, but as I said I've got lots of projects.
It would help to hook up with a talented and enthusiastic stockmaker. So you know of Craig Libhart?
I genuinely wish you luck,
Steve

Mark, thanks for all the info! A 90% Hi-wall sounds like about the ideal size for all the ctgs. from .22 Short to .50-110 that are likely to be chambered (and a little less cumbersome for us hunters that fly a car and a desk for a living). Hope you are successful in this venture! Can't have too many 'walls!

Why would anyone want a .22 rf highwall in the first place? With our without a pope-esque chopping?

A low wall does it so much better, so much easier. For some other things maybe - a .25-20 for instance. Though a low wall does that just fine too. In the modern cartridges I guess there is a need. But a highwall feels mighty good to me. The thin=tanged low wall must feel pretty close to a 90% highwall and I find the thin-tanged LW a bit too skinny for my fairly normal hands.

Brent

backwards once again

BrentD

I agree with you in most,if not all regards.

my reason for a 22 RF is so i can shoot all day for almost
free ... to wring out my action/ trigger/lever and set easily surpassed accuracy standards ( using Douglas match and Hart barrels in 22rf and easily shooting better with anything in 2R at 100 to 500 yards, no typo that's 500 yards with 2R)

BTW made a run of 22RF to 2R adaplters to shoot 22RF in a 2R but can't get them to group well enough. so don't want to sell any

my real goal is 2R Lovell and if you feel a lowwall is action enough ... perhaps we can agree to disagree?

UNRELATED? why did Pope use highwalls ?
this is asked in ignorance despite reading as much as i can get my hands on

otherwise; yes, i have addressed a very small or perhaps imaginary need for a more elegant small rifle but boy are they sweet

( website is updated to show Harris highwall instead of customized full sized Winchester)

ps i have extra large and partially "reworked" machinist hands
and factory levers are awkward at best ... another reason
why 1 size does not fit all


thank you again for sharing your thoughts and knowledge

MikeA

small barrel shank on my gun precludes larger cartridges
but i agree no such thing as too many highwalls
shoot 'em in good spirits

mark

I don't see any problem shooting .22s to 500 meters. Heck of a lof of fun if you can find the space. I rarely get to shoot that far, but I also find not much of interest in shooting less than 200 yds, so I know where you are coming from and if I could make an action like that, I would do the same.

I can't say diddly about low walls and centerfires. I would like one for a .25-20SS which I believe would be plenty safe, esp. with the black powder I shoot almost exclusively.

In any event, I do like your action, and I wish you the best of luck. But I think you are wise to focus on the smaller, high pressure cartridges that interest some folks. I hope you can find a bunch of them for customers!

Brent