doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Anyone familiar with this name as shotgun maker?

I bought a very nice 20ga SxS today. Only names on it are Budapest (I know where that is) and Fegyvergyar which may or may not be the name of the builder. Gun's proofs show it to be Hungarian, proofed in 1942. Unusual configuration in that it is a sideplated boxlock but with reinforced shoulders on the action and a Purdey style 3d bite. Someone really wanted this gun to last. It has Bohler Blitz barrels, and an ejector mechanism mounted inside a metal cylinder in the forend. (Haven't seen ejectors like this before.) Full coverage scroll on action and first couple inches of the barrels. I bought it based on the quality of the worksmanship I saw and the great barrels which are perfect with hand filed rib. Stout enough to be a great live pigeon gun but in 2.5" 20ga? If you know how to pronounce the name I would appreciate a phonetic assist? Any feedback on the builder would especially be appreciated.

Jerry:
I can't help with the phonetics, but I think it is Fegyvergyar Reszvenytarsasag / FÉGARMY Fegyvergyártó Kft, similar to FEG??[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fegyver-_%C3%A9s_G%C3%A9pgy%C3%A1r ](copy to a browser), who manufactured Frommer's pistols. Any chance in getting a pic of the flats?

1891-1919 Fegyver és Gépgyár Részvénytársaság, Budapest ('F.G.GY.')
[Weapon and Machinery Factory Company, Budapest]
1919-1946 Fémáru, Fegyver- és Gépgyár Részvénytársaság, Budapest
[Metal Products, Weapon and Machinery Factory Company, Budapest]
1946-1959 Lámpagyár (Lampart), Budapest
[Lamp Factory (Lampart), Budapest]
1959-1975 Fémáru és Szerszámgépgyár NV
[Metal Products and Tool Machinery Factory Company]
1975-2003 Fegyver és Gázkészulékgyár ('FEG'), Budapest
[Weapon and Gas Appliance Factory, Budapest]
2003- FEGArmy Fegyvergyártó Kft ('FEG'), Budapest
[FEGArmy Weapon Manufacturing Company, Budapest]

from - http://sunblest.net/gun/Info.htm



Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

ellenbr, It will be a while before I can post a photo of the flats, but I can tell you pretty precisely what is there if you would like. Email me at jvlape@cox.net. The marks are absolutely normal for 1942.

All I can say is that I bought an imported-to-Canada no-name 12-gauge Hungarian double nearly 30 years ago at a ridiculously low price for the value, maybe $150---and, yes, I let it escape and have been kicking myself ever since. As Jerry said, it was stout and balanced nicely, plain as pudding but a real good gun.

I think that most if not all Fegy' doubles were based on patents of Rudolf Frommer. Earlier guns had triggerguard levers while all(?) have reinforced sides.

With kind regards,
Jani

I have seen a few SxS's made by FEG in Hungary in the 1950's. Seemed like decent utility guns, nothing very fancy.

JERRY

Rudolf Frommer was born in Budapest on August 4th, 1868 and a source or 2 gives him being an engineer before joining Femaru Fegyver es Gepgyar in 1896. Other sources, http://sunblest.net/gun/Bio.htm , give he was a banker and was drawn to Femaru Fegyver es Gepgyar(prior name in 1896) to rectify their finanical troubles and in 1898 became obsessed with weapons. He may not have been a master but it would have been after his employment at Femaru Fegyver es Gepgyar and for now I don’t know where his walk-about took him, or if he was a journeyman. So with this additional info I have less faith in the fact that Rudolph Frommer was a scattergun designer but the probability still exists. He had some sort of disease in his 60s and that was the reason for his departure/retirement from Femaru Fegyver es Gepgyar in 1935. Shortly thereafter on September 1st, 1936 he expired in Budapest. From afar, and about 100 years later, it is difficult to determine just what part Rudolf Frommer played as a designer, practical product manufacture and supervisor at Femaru Fegyver es Gepgyar. Several other masterful minds were involved in theory as well as application and Karel Krnka was one of them. Karel Krnka(April 6th, 1858 – Feb. 25th, 1926 in Prague) was more of a theorist in gun design as well as writer but may have played a part, or imported the technology, as he was an employee of Zbrojovka Praga and then Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka. So I know he came in contact with the Holek boys(Emanuel-master 1920/1921/1922???, Frantisek-master 1919??, Vaclav Holek was an apprentice in Pisek and then on to Mulacz in Vienna in 1905 and should have been a master by 1909/1910. He traveled to Nowonty of Prague in 1910, possibly as a master, to streamline the mechanized production of H&H sidelock scatterguns) and I guess Krnka may have taken some pointers from the boys Holek, specifically Vaclav, although I’m not positive who was the father of the ZP series but suspect Vaclav Holek. Karel Krnka apprenticed to his father, Sylvestr Krnka, who had been an apprentice to the Viennese gunamker Nowtony in the 1840s. I don’t know if his walk-about took him outside of the Austro-Hungarian empire but guess him to have been a master by 1881/1882. So in my mind, and for now, you have a supervisor, theorist and boys Holek all who may have contributed to the Femaru Fegyver es Gepgyar scattergun.

Jerry, yes I'd like pics and I would try to put some info together on the scattergun, its possibly maker and mesh it with the pics.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Jerry:
Any indication as to the steel type? I'd guess Poldi W02(Poldi registered trademark from 7/18/1893) or CKV for the tubes and maybe Poldi ATEM(chromium nickel steel) for the frame and various other parts. If not Poldi, then Witkowitz or Vitkovice Iron & Steel Works. I've been chasing the Danube Ironworks Company/Dunai Vasmu at Dunaujvaros) but can only trace it back to the 1950s. There was the Resicza Steel Works/Hungarian Steel & Munitions Works as was there Skoda(Emil Skoda with wing in a circle trademark from 1923), which had engineers that assisted Vaclav Holek and others at Ceska Zbrojovka(Czech Armoury) after pretty much all left the Praja Zbrojovka(Prague Armoury). There was a Rudolf Benes cat at one of the Zbrojovka, Brno or Prague, that was the head and the "B" of the "HB" designation is for Benes while the "H" is Holek.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

As usual Jani, you are correct and Rudolf von(he's von now) Frommer was the father of the Hungarian boxlock and obtained U.S. of A. patent #1558158 of 1925 - http://www.google.com/patents?id=t5hEAAA...;q=&f=false

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Ellenbr, the steel for the barrels is Bohler Blitz. That is found on the barrel flats. The ejector mechanism is the one described in the Frommer patent. Haven't had time to read the rest of the patent yet, particularly interested in the two brass screws in the action flats and whether the third bite is also described in the patent.