doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com OLD TIME SHOOTING STYLE

I don't think modern shooters are any more 'proper' with their low drops than the old timers with their high drops. I still don't understand why guys want to shoot with their neck all crunched down. I'd like to try a gun with 4" drop.

I like the "democratic patriotic sport" part in the Du Pont add.

Note that eye-ear protection wasn't a high priority in the 'Golden Years".

Marketing strategies haven't changed in the last 150 years. The only way to obsolete a perfectly functional good piece of equipment and sell a new one is to change the fashion. Get George Digweed to shoot a 9 pound side by side with 26" barrels and 4" of drop and in two years 90% of all the guys shooting the Perazzis would be clamoring for Galazan to make them one just like George's.

I don't mean to single out sporting clays shooters or Perazzi shooters. I am susceptible too. I have a snow ski boot story that covers three decades. The short version is "You gotta get front entry, rear entry boots just can't work as good", then "You gotta get rear entry boots, by the it's very nature the front entry boot can't give you the control you need" and then "You gotta get front entry, rear entry boots just can't work as good".

I only fell for it twice.

Best,

Mike

That, Ladies and Gentlemen, is it in a nutshell.

1898 Ithaca ad
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1898/VOL_30_NO_26/SL3026027.pdf

Trap Facts from Fulford
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1898/VOL_30_NO_26/SL3026025.pdf
Utica, N. Y.. March 14. Gun Editor Sporting Life
The first requisite for a successful trap shot is a good, level head and the power to govern himself if possessed of a nervous temperament: remembering at all times if one can’t control his temper he can’t control his gun. I want to see a man call "pull" twenty times, if necessary, when the traps are working badly, with" a smile on his face, and then break the target when it does fly. If a man speaks to you while shooting make the best of it; If a foreign substance or smoke blows into your eye make the best of it; If a target flies out of its natural course, or is not a fair bird, don’t shoot; if you do and miss it, offer no excuse whatever, as you will only be laughed at.
A gun with two sets of barrels, both the same length and weight, is to be recommended. Have trap set bored to shoot 70 per -cent, of load in a 30-inch circle, at 40 yards. Have field set with right barrel cylinder and left barrel modified choke. Get a gun with drop and cast-off that fits you, and one that you can hit the objects with. The average man needs about 2 3/4 inches drop at butt, 1 1/2 inches drop at comb, 141/4 inches long, full pistol grip, weight 7 1/2 to 8 pounds. The Remington Arms Company without doubt or question produce the best and strongest gun for the money made in the world to-day.
I consider the U. M. C. shell the best. I know nothing about any powder but Schultze and believe it the best nitro powder made. For a target load use 2 3/4 to 3 drams, wadded with a split salmon No. 11 two pink-edge. No. 11 and 1 1/4 ounces No. 7 chilled shot, in 2 3/4 inch Trap or Smokeless case. For live birds use 45 to 50 grains, wadded with one split salmon No. 11. two pink-edge. No. 11, 1 1/4 ounces No. 7 and 1 3 / 16 ounces No. 6 chilled shot, in 2 3/4 inch case. You can make no mistake in using the above loads for trap shooting of the present clay. Always use a wad one size larger than the gauge of your gun: the latter is very important in any gun.
Shot traveling at the rate of 900 feet per second requires one-sixth of a second to go 50 yards, one-eighth of a second to go 40-yards, one-tenth of. a second to go 30 yards, and one-fifteenth of a second to go 20 yards. An object moving at the rate of 30 miles an hour goes 41/2 feet while the shot travels 40 yards: an object moving at the rate of 60 miles an hour goes 9 feet while the shot is traveling 4O yards; an object moving at the rate of 120 miles an hour goes 18 feet while the shot is traveling 40 yards. Therefore, in order to make a junction of your shot and target, you must learn to time the distance, move your gun just as fast as the object – no faster and no slower – and don’t stop the motion of your gun when you pull the trigger.
A great many are of the opinion that each man shoots with a different system, but such is not the case. It may be so with the poorer class of shooters, but with the best shots of America all shoot so near alike, or know where to aim, that there is one grand-standard. It often takes years to find the right place. Different men take different ways, but the result is always the same.
The position of the gun should be a free and easy one, with left arm extended so there is a slight bend at the elbow; the butt should be dropped 2 1/2 inches or more from the face, and never, never hold your gun glued to your shoulder.
A beginner should get a pair of shells known as "snaps," which have a spring in the primer hole, and it does not hurt the hammers to snap them. Placing the gun to your shoulder before a (mirror) and snapping at an object, several yards away, the instant it strikes your shoulder is almost as good practice as the real shooting. The novice should study his position, because the centre of gravity has as much to do with good shooting as anything else. Learn to get in the strongest position possible when your gun goes off - not when it starts - and always have a little force in reserve, so when you get a fast quarterer you can push the gun further in front with ease and control it’s motion.

Fulford won the 1898 Grand American Handicap at Live Birds
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1898/VOL_31_NO_02/SL3102016.pdf
E. D. Fulford, the winner, needs no introduction to the shooting men of this country. He has been at the traps as a professional shot for five or six years, during which time he has won many honors. He claims an unofficial record of over 400 live birds killed without a miss. He is at present a shooting representative of the Remington Arms Co., and used a Remington hammerless gun weighing 7 3/4 lbs., 3 1/2 Schultze powder in U. M. C. Trap shells, three inches in length; 1 1/4 oz. No. 7 shot.

I don't know. Couldn't it be a kind of evolution?

In the early days, birds were everywhere. Killing a bunch of them in a day may not have required much skill.

If you see 100 birds a day and you're a 10% shooter, that's 10 dead birds.

As bird pops declined, people needed to become better shots to bring home the same bags. So what do they do, they modified their shooting style and went from shooting 10% to shooting 30% or better.

Also, as more and more people took part in competitive shoots, the competition was more intense. To win, you needed an edge.

The best shots stood out from the crowd. These guys may have adapted the less drop, head down style as an edge. As they won, people imitated them.

Just a thought...

Besides, if a lot of drop and a heads up style was an advantage, serious shooters -- Olympic level, pro pigeon shooters, etc -- would be doing it.

OWD

"if a lot of drop and a heads up style was an advantage"

Here we go again

Wing shooting from American Game-bird Shooting by George Bird Grinnell, 1910



A. B. Frost



Neck extended forward, head scrunched down on the stock, eye looking straight down the rib



Here's a very interesting Peters die cut showing a man in a shooting position but without the shotgun-clearly head down and neck extended.



And another Western bird shooter

Thanks Walt and all. Interesting shooting style, "the shrug".
I've employed "the shrug", it's usually after a missed bird and my gun is in dismount.

I attribute the big drops on the old guns to a shooting style of a century ago. For the most part, we have evolved.

A very good skeet shooter I know shoots with his cheek off the stock. He just uses a very well honed instinctive point and shoot method. It took me a while to realize that this was the same method Charles Askins referred to for field shooting in his book, "The American Shotgun," and he likened it to the instinctive method that would have been favored by the old Wild West type gunslingers. If in fact that was an accepted shooting style of a hundred years ago, a gun with less than 2.75" of drop would be a handicap. Obviously, the manufacturers met the market need.

I suspect that as the supply of game decreased in the field, and people began counting targets at the traps, more attention was paid to the eye-barrel relationship. Cheeks were being pushed to wood and the low combs lost favor.

It all goes to show that we haven't changed that much - always looking for an edge, always need a new gun.

BTW, is there any concensus about whether this extreme drop thing is common to a time period, or just common to the US? The 19th century English guns I have are not too far off of what we would go afield with today.

There seems to be enough evidence that even turn of the century American guns were made with high comb dimensions when special ordered that way by the buyer. The Brits seem to have had high comb dimensions as a norm for well before the turn of the century.

I can see how/why a low comb may have been desireable in the day. I can also imagine that, while it may not have contributed to the most consistant mount, it could still perpetuate in the industry. Many sporting techniques change over the years. How about the way Dick Fosbury did his High Jump? How about the current technique of Ski Jumping with the legs spread? It wasn't that long ago that they kept them together, parallel. Simlarly, the open fingers in swimming competition. Technique and equipment progress is normal.

Me? I prefer a middle of the road drop. 1 1/2 x 2 1/2 works well for me. Very typical of a post WW2 American gun. Some of the extreme modern shooters are using 1 1/4 or less DAC x 2" or less at the heel.