doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com If a 12ga,16ga, and a 20ga. all loaded with 1oz ?

sort of a question coming out of Lowells small bore post. If the 12ga,16ga, and 20ga. were all loaded with 1oz of shot, 1200fps. and the guns were patterned to shoot the same. Are we not talking about the same ballistics as it might affect shooting a game bird. So much is written about the marginal ability of the 20 to be a pheasant gun. Granted, if the 12 is loaded up it would have more firepower, but if these vintage damascus were loaded as above, would not all be equal??? Randy

Everthing else being equal, the 12 would have a superior pattern to the 16, and the 16 would be superior to the 20. The 20 would suffer some deformed pellets at the bottom due to the shot column being longer and skinnier. Ballisticians refer to this as effiency, and a 20 with an oz isn't considered the model of effiency.

Now, go work on getting everything equal! Did I mention shooting 1 oz loads in a 20 for any length of time is usually pretty unpleasant?
Best,
Ted

Good reading in Parker Guns: The Old Reliable by Ed Muderlak about Parker's marketing efforts to convince the sports that the small bores 'hit harder.' And they sold a bunch of long brl 20s for the effort.

Many years ago I shot a good number of 2½-1-7½ loads, both factory & reloads, from a 6lb Ithaca Flues. (didn't know they had weak frames in my ignorant youth, they were marked smokeless powder proof) The load was exceedingly comfortable to shoot, amassed a pile of game, but I never really patterned it in comparsion to firing 1oz from a 12ga. Later I also did some fine shooting with a 12ga Damascus J P Clabrough & Brothers also using 1oz loads loaded to approximtely the same ballistics. Note that 1oz can be loaded in 12ga to far lower pressures than in a 20ga. From a bore capacity standpoint 1oz of shot is about the equivelent of +1 3/8oz in a 12ga. A Damascus 20ga is much better suited to 3/4oz loads, 7/8oz max.

"Square load" shot column hype notwithstanding, far more germane is the ease with which you can make a suitably fast 1 oz 12s pressured for damascus vs the same for 20s.

Sam

Aren't there game limits for most of the birds today's hunter might be shooting at? So who cares if using a 20 causes you to hit only 82% of the birds as compared to 85% that you would hit with a 12?

In terms of pattern, the difference is almost certainly less with modern ammo (plastic wads) than it was in the pre-plastic wad days--but the difference is still there. The larger bore, all else being equal, will always have an advantage, although that advantage isn't all that significant.

If you're talking pheasants in specific, you can take a lot of them with nothing heavier than 1 oz loads, and the pheasant almost certainly doesn't know the difference between a 1 oz load from a 20 and a 1 oz load from a 12. The advantage to the larger bores is that if you need to go to heavier loads--which, on occasion, you do with wild pheasants--you can do so. A 16 that comes from the factory with 2 3/4" chambers should handle 1 1/8 oz loads, and a 12 1 1/4 oz, as well as a 20 handles 1 oz.

On this subject, I just ran across an old American Rifleman article from 1930, by Charles Askins--in which he talks about the 20, with an ounce of 6's, being a reliable duck slayer at 45 yards. I don't know much about ducks (and of course we have to shoot them with nontox these days rather than lead), but I would not want to trust an ounce of 6's on pheasants from ANY gauge past 40 yards, and that would be with at least an IM choke, if not full. And that's also considering modern shells versus what Askins had available.

When I read the title, I said to myself "Depends which gun fits best." When I read the posts, I said the same thing. As for the 20, the 1 1/8 ounce three-inch works great for me although 90 per cent of my shooting is with 12s. I don't fire enough shells to feel anything unpleasant, almost religiously picking up my tollers at 8-8:30 a.m. and going to other things. I hunt nearly every day.

"Everthing else being equal, the 12 would have a superior pattern to the 16, and the 16 would be superior to the 20."

I'm not so sure about that. I'm not a stat geek, but if one subscribes to the square load theory as a model of efficiency, then the 16 would have the superior pattern, because 1 oz. in a 16 is its optimum load and the most "square" is it not? We're nitpicking here, but it is something to think about. I could see where 1 oz in a 12 might have 2-3% fewer deformed pellets, but I haven't seen any tests to prove that it patterns better as a result.

As GregSY said however, who cares anyway. The important thing is to just enjoy them.

I used 1 RBL + 1 oz #6 @ 1250 and the results were dead Ringnecks. Also would add I used IC and IM chokes.
bill