doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Winchester WS1 and WS2 Chokes

Jimmy,

Great to hear from you. I expected you to be the first to comment on my light 21. I had not been on the board for a while; I go in cycles and a lot of work going on. In addition to my bird hunting and actuarial work I opened a small tractor place, redid the old farm house on my hunting place and time has been short. Haven't been to Louisville since you and I met. How is retirement treating you?

I have been doing my thing with my 28's, but I took a closer look at this light 21 that I had sold conditionally and for some reason it appealed to me more than before. Maybe it is age related.

I'm looking forward to hunting with this light 21 with WS chokes some more to verify my thoughts on it. All I know is I shot well with it with less effort and more enjoyment than with any other gun I have shot for a long time (including my Parker and Ithaca 28's). Now I know that shooting well is more related to the shooter than the gun or chokes, but some guns are much easier to shoot well with that comforable feeling that just makes you feel good all over carrying the gun and shooting it.

I am aware that the WS1 is close to a tight skeet or light improved cylinder with a buggle added at the end and the WS2 is in fact a traditional modified, but based on the small amount of patterning I did (two shots, one at 20 yards and one at 25 yards) and my hunting, I think that WS1 opens up quicker and holds together better than the regular tight skeet or light improved cylinder. During the next few weeks I plan to pattern the WS1 extensively at varying distances and I will share my results.

Thanks everyone for your input on these chokes. I assumed someone knew or had experience with these chokes to either confirm my feelings or tell me I was just dreaming.

Riprap

I don't know for beans about all these chokes except I have bought doubles just for the open chokes---luckiest so far I/C and L/M---and would think myself really lucky to find C/C. I often use spreaders, depending on the mission. My average shot is about 30 yards on ducks, maybe half that on grouse. Full is for experts.

Would certainly be interested in seeing "Extensive" pattern testing showing this. As most patterns sort of trace a trumpet shape would like to see what causes a reverse curve, back toward center, to cause a quick opening pattern to hold up longer.

2-piper,

Do you still have an old 2 cylinder John Deere?

I was waiting for your comments because I know you are experienced with shotguns and also a tecnical person. My statement "Opens quicker and holds together longer" doesn't make much sense to me either, especially since I just reviewed some of Winchester's own comments about the WS1 in that it dispersed quickly after 25 yards. Note that my initial patterning was at 20 and 25 yards.

I also just measured the chokes and the left side WS2 is tapered by about 12/1000's. The right barrel WS1 seems to constrict about 4/1000's and then buggle out. My gauge is not the best. When my friend returns in a few days I am going to use his standard of the trade gauge and see what I have.

Thanks,
Riprap

Rip; Yea still got an old Popper or so, but don't run them much anymore. They make them a lot more efficient than those ol two-bangers, but they never made one sound sweeter than an old Model D working under a heavy load.

I have two M21's bored SK1 & SK2. Both 12 bores and both made in 1935. Barrels are original and untouched. One of the guns mikes out at .006 for SK1 and .010 for SK2. The other one mikes out at .009 and .016. I am somewhat skeptical that the reverse bell on the SK1 chokes has any measurable effect on anything. At any rate both of these guns perform superbly out to 35 yards with appropriate loads and the second one is deadly to 40 yards with the left barrel at .016 constriction.

I was hoping to see how 'deadly' btdtst's M-21s were when he took me hunting in NE KS but the pheasant and quail mother ship must have sucked up every bird in Washington, Marshall, and Riley counties before we arrived
He did fine with his Ruger GL though.

RevDocDrew,
A true gentleman would not have brought up the memory of those two days. My mind tends to erase things like that!!

Old technology? I'd like to see a comparison of the Ws-1 choke using older felt wad shells against modern ones with plastic shot cups. Before any one puts down the WRA designers maybe we should see what the Ws-1 can do with period shells?

WS1 barrels? I own them and love them, but I also know what happens when you bump into a tree or fence post with that right muzzle. I'll settle for a cylinder bored Model 21 if I need open chokes in the field. I have no idea why I sold my Skeet Grade 12 gauge bored cylinder and improved cylinder. What a great gun that was.