doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Need help, 16 ga Fabrique Nationale D'Armes

Hello All
VERY interesting !!
Here is a picture of my GECO



Enjoy the evening
Mike

This FN was proofed no later than June 1924. The Lion Rampant (not a crown) over PV was introduced for military rifles of 8mm & smaller in 1898 & then applied to the supplementary smokeless proof for shotguns in 1903. 16/C in a diamond was begun in 1898 & replaced by the gauge & shell length, thus 16-65 inside a stylized C following June of 1924. The mark D=65/19.0 for length of chamber & dia of chamber just ahead of the rim C'Bore was likewise in use from about 1892 through June of '24 & applied only to those guns receiving the smokeless proof. This gun was thus proofed no later than June 1924. Info from A Baron Englehardt, Gun Digest article.
Mikes Geco is post June '24. you can observe the different guge/chamber length mark there. Prior to '24 guns carrying only the black Powder marks did not have chamber length marked, only the gauge thereof.

The date stamp on the Geco indicates it was proofed in 1927.

Miller,

The nitro proof mark was introduced in 1898 for military arms. They started using it for all arms in 1903.

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

Pete

Miller, as always thanks for the info. As for the bore size, what is your opinion? Is is just a coincidence that the 672 is stamped on the barrels and did PJ do it, and what would the correct bore size be then, .662 or .672. Also choke markings, 16.0 and 17.0, I can't find any information on them, but have seen them for other European guns.

Pete, thanks, I didn't see your post,was writing this one.

JDW:
The "672" probably is the assembly number and if so will be found on other parts. I believe it was in January of 1897 when the choke stamps as seen on your example were implemented. The top number is the diameter at the muzzle while the lower number is the measured diameter at 22cm from the standing breech. I'm not sure, but the mark may have been applied before final proofing and if so, then an enlargement of less than 0.2mm was allowed for final polishing without reproof. I still hold that "PJ" was the mechanic at FN. Nice little puzzle with Krupp steel tubes.

Kind Regard,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, thanks also for your valuable input and information.

They are asking $375.00 for it.
Has the Anson type for-end release and has double ring engravng around the side clips on the barrels. Except for the swivels holes in the stock, two different locations and the swiwels on the barrels (screwed on) it is a nice handling gun. Mounts nice with the raised cheek piece.

JDW:

I don't know that I added much but glad to do it.

Peter:

Would Partheons(PJ) have had any input on this example? Do you know if Joseph Janssen, one of the original founders of FN in 1889??, had a son with the first initial of "P"? I don't think it would have been a decendent of Gustave Joassart as in 1917 he caught a rail to Paris. Did Lucien Clement use a stamp of "Crown" over "LC"? Last how do you account for the spangled "x" controller's stamp? Once again all the marks make a very interesting puzzle.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

David;
I would totally agree with Raimey as to the likely meaning of the 672. both bbls seem to have 17.0mm bores which converts to .669". I cannot read the upper numbers real clear with my old eyes but appear to be 16.4 for the left bbl & 16.6 for the right one. This would thus represent .6 & .4 mm constriction respectfully or in English .024" left & .016" right. for a 16ga I'd call that a modified & an improved modified or in European terminology ½ & 3/4 chokes.

Don't really recall now what you said about condition, but if in any condition at all I would think this would make a great shooter & certainly be worth that. What else could you buy these days for that amount of money??

That is essentially what I said. Only difference is info I have would indicate that in 1903 Smokeless proof for shotguns was still considered an option in Belgium so it will not necessarily be found on "ALL" shotguns. It was thus used only on those arms requiring or requesting smokeless powder proof at that point in time.

Gentlemen, thanks so much for your input. I know nothing of the European or British markings for proof or chokes, only what I might find in the Blue Book or on the Hallowell site.
The one symbol that looks like a key, states in there that it is for final proof.

Miller, your right, where can you find a gun for that price. Like I said, looks to be a decent made gun, and I do like 16 ga.
The left barrel stayed the same at .024 but the right barrel was honed and now is .005.