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I have an East German made, "J P Sauer - Suhl", 16 ga gun, proof dated May 1959. Near the breech near the top of both barrels is stamped four interlocking rings. This symbol is recognized as the Olympics Logo. I understand that at some point E-TW ceased to use it under threat of a lawsuit.

My questions are (1) when did they first use it, (2) for how long, and (3) what prompted them to use it in the first place? Was this stamp used on products for sale to the Eastern Bloc only, or for general distribution?

I believe that at one time Suhl was the center of East German competitive shooting sports. However, I do not know if these matters were related. Thanks.

The Olympic symbol is 5 rings, not 4.

If I remember correctly either Krupp adopted or applied for a trademark in 1875: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krupp . I don't know about the Thalmann suit. Sauer never had the 3 interlocking rail wheels, but it was Krupp and in 1893 Krupp and Sauer entered into an agreement for Sauer only to peddle "Weapons Grade Steel" which bore the 3 interlocking rings. The Krupp trademark was a symbol of a certain composition of steel. Others followed such as Nirosta, http://www.nirosta.de/fileadmin/media/PDF/4565_en.pdf . In 1959 you should have a quality stamp on the left side of the rear lug.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Yes, there is a "Q" with a superimposed "1" on the left side of the rear barrel lug.

The four rings separate "Special-Gewehr" and "Lauf-Stahl S.G.1" I have wondered if that stamp was somehow actually related to the material, or in imitation of the old three ring Krupp Logo.

I'll look later tonight on a few post WWII examples but can you email or post a pic of the verbiage. You are correct though it should say "Spezial Gewehr Lauf Stahl" - Special Weapons Grade Tube/Barrel Steel. I'm puzzled by the "S.G.1" for now. The "1" in the "Q" is the top/outstanding quality mark. What's the name on the underside of the tubes, Simson?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Yes, 4-rings was related to material, according to some Soviet publications in press it was Russian barrel steel 50A (S.G.1).
But there is one question where did GDR get barrel steel when all pre-war and war time German steel stock got empty? Definatly from USSR. There were 3 types of Russian barrel steel for hunting weapons: 50A, later 50AR and chrome-nickel steel 30CrN2МF (Boler Blitz analog) mostly on GDR Merkel's and other high grade GDR guns.
The story with 4 rings "Krupp" steel is not quite clear. Guns for export to the West or because Krupp family was in West Germany and claimed ther rights for 3-ring trademark.

Good eye Geno and now I really want to see the barrel stamps. Geno are you saying the Russians borrowed the Boehler Blitz steel composition?

Kind Regards,

Raimey

Not sure about steel composition, but from press this steel very much alike Bohler Blitz by quality. This steel been used on the best Russian MC guns.

Well Geno, you've taught me something tonight and as per tradition on New Year's Day it's your duty to do the same each day for 365 days. I've often wondered what the "Lauf-Stahl S.G.1" might stand for and had sort of dismissed it. Also the spelling of the word "Special" had me confused.

Thanks and Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I will take and post some photos of the stamp marks as soon as I can take them and figure out how to include them.

Both barrel tubes just ahead of the flat, and the water table, are stamped with the "SuS" Sauer und Sohn monogram. On the barrels it is only partial.

FJS