doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Shotgun barrel regulation--historical question

RE contemporary H&H Regulation

Barrel convergence is built in by machining the breeches to predetermined angles, and careful assembly of the tubes assures it during the barrelmaking process. H&H's barrelmakers are arguably the best in the business, and nowadays they have certainly trained most of the best working for the trade at large: Higgins, Blacker, the Frenchman who works for Hartmann & Weiss, et al.

All the fixed chokes are hand regulated for pattern by counting percentages and tweaking as needed. Steven Cranston, H&H's dedicated regulator, certainly checks for POI, as when he is plating a gun he shoots at a mark on the plate. A gun should not have any major POI issues by the time it gets to him, however. It was my impression that barrels would be "scrapped" early on if they exhibited major convergence problems, or it was thought they would.

If a bought-in boxlock at H&H was badged "shot & regulated by H&H" in the old days rest assured it was. The company built its reputation on rifle regulation and has always taken pride in its regulation at large. It's part of the H&H mystique, and was no doubt part of the reason the H&H salesman could 'justify' selling its boxlocks for more.

Robin Brown, at AA Brown's, still hand regulates and so will David McKay Brown. Many others in Britain, however, no longer do, though I feel certain they ck for basic POI.

As to the question about how widely this was practiced historically on an average gun: certainly it was ubiquitous with best guns in the UK, and widely done on the better sort of mid-grade gun. Was every gun so checked? Jack Rowe would know.

I don't know enough about the American practices to even guess but those researchers who have gotten first-hand looks at the record books could probably tell you. You may want to try the question at one of the dedicated sites to a particular American gun.

I think the better guns would definately have been shot and regulated and still are as Vic stated 'Cranny' is one of the few and probably the best, and as he modestly always says 'it aint rocket science, it's common sense' H&H have a design department where the draughtsmen calculate the convergence angle of the barrels and then Steve checks and adjusts at the Ground. I would have thought that commercial makers such as WC Scott who produced vast numbers of guns in their heyday would have regulated the prototypes and then set down procedures to copy the results, and of course in those days each and every craftsman was a proud artisan and prided themselves in being the best.Certainly Ted Churchill built a business on shot regulating for his business E J Churchill, and I know for certain that modern masters in Brum such as Robin Brown, David Dreyhurst, John Wiseman et.al. hand regulate guns that they are building.
Indeed Nigel Teague founded his business on barrel regulating before he ever made a screw in choke.
But remember cartridges whether traditional or modern have a vast influence on the pattern thrown, so just because a gun doesn't throw the designated pattern with such and such a cartridge does not mean it was regulated poorly.

As for American guns being shot for proof of pattern and POI, I believe there has been some evidence from factory records presented on this bbs that special ordered guns had their purchasers specify at least pattern percentage at specified distance. There may have also been evidence of specified POI, however, I don't specifically recall that.

Guys like Walt Snyder and Researcher may be able to provide further insight into the American maker practices.

I can believe that H&H, etc. in fact all the top makers regulated the convergence of their barrels before ribs were finish soldered. Although if assembled correctly there should be no need for this in shotgun barrels. But to assert that bought in Birmingham guns, already finished, were then "shot and regulated" whatever that might mean, is just plain nonsense. That's like believing someone walked on water. Or that confining people to their seats for the last hour will make us safer. I wonder how the airlines will deal with stinking seats
nial

Nial,
If the traditional method shown in the H&H video, of wiring and shimming, with straight-edge visual alignment, is the way it's done most places, there's a good bit of human skill left to chance. Granted, a craftsman worth his salt should not have a problem, but that's the reason for a quality control check.

P.S.
passengers will just have to start carrying Gatorade bottles like the truckers on the interstate. Leave them in the seatback pockets for the airline. Our gov'ts seem to be talking out both sides of their collective mouths..."...we won't let them change the way we live...: take off your clothes, no drinks, no nothing to carry on, no peeing, no standing, obey some old bitty that is a waitress in the sky or go to prison, don't say specific words in and around airports or airplanes." Nah, we aren't letting them change the way we live...heck no. Someone will get the message some day.