doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Carl Grundig, Dresden

There is one man in Canada Alex and hes asking about his o/u cape gun, who was Carl Grundig Royal Gunmaker (sign on barrels)?
I have to say I just once saw Grundig's gun and it was very nice gun. Also I know there is Grundig ammo.
Several photos of signs and proof marks on this gun.
Caliber 72/68 means plug diameter .400 or 10,16 mm and powder charge 39 G.B.P./St.m.G. Any bells what could it be?
Alex promised to send me photo of 1 cartrige and he is positive this is original one. But he'll send it in a week, hes out of home now.
If photos don't load, let me know, I'll move them to another place

Photos look good but no help with Grundig.

Geno:
This earlier thread my be of some use to you.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...HPSESSID=05d496
Also keep in mind that Dresden was firebombed into rubble during WW II and many records were destroyed.
Jim

Geno...the rifle barrel is chambered for the 10.75 x 70R which is/was a Barrella proprietary cartridge. Some of these guns have been changed or altered sucessfully to take the 10.75 x 73 rimless. (The 10.75 x 73 is the .404 Jeffrey-a rimless cartridge) Fredrik Franzen published an article in DGJ about a couple of Barrella guns that had been converted to the .404. I don't recall how they handled the extraction problem. Not sure in which of the DGJ where his article appears but someone reading this theard may be able to be more specific about that. Jeff Stephens

Jeff, Alex is pretty sure case leghth is no longer, than 53 mm. Thou I have to ask him to make chamber cast, he's not expert in guns.

It may very well be chambered for the 10.75X70R, and right off I'm not familiar with the load data but there was a Gruendig who dabbled in cartridges and had at the very least the 10.75X60 Grundig which I think was the 10.75X60 Leue, who was the nephew of Heinrich Barella. I think this to be the same Gruendig. It may very well be the 10.75X65R Grundig which I think differs from the Collath round. A chamber cast will tell the tale.

Carl Gruendig achieve the rank of master in 1876 and using the average age of a master being 24 years, a guess at his date of birth can be made. He was Koniglich Sachsischer Hofbuchsenmacher or something like top gunmaker sourced by the Royal Saxon court. Remember that it could have been the Royal taste tester who ordered from Gruendig, as long as he was a member of the Royal Court, Gruendig could taut the title, which was purchased as well as acquired thru political connections and had a yearly fee. Dresden was the capital and jewel of the Saxon region. The gun makers guild was formed as early as in the mid 1500s and craftsmen for afar including Suhl moved to Dresden. Carl Gruendig had at least 2 sons, Max and Hugo, who took the company reins just before the beginning of WWI. During WWI Carl Gruendig was intergrated with the Teschner-Collath firm and peddled their products and I'm sure others they sourced from the Suhl craftsmen. He was quite the inventor and a couple patents as well as several petty patents(D.R.G.M.). I'll have to see if I can locate the D.R.G.M. number. Nice effect of the marks to make them more visible.

The lowercase script "g" near the forend lug looks very similar to those found on Sauer examples and the Gruendig examples I have hold additional Sauer marks. I can't tell from these pics but with a single crossbolt flange, he may have sourced one of the Merkel boys.

And that's 3 grams of G.B.P. and not 39.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

scroll down to #117 about 3/4s of the way down: http://mun.h1454304.stratoserver.net/browse.php?cat_id=2&sessionid=&lang=en

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Thank's Raimey. I believe you nailed it. I remember there were several Grundig rounds, but couldn't find it.
Seems 45 and 52 mm Grundig cases could be made from 7,62x54R Mosin.


With octahedral barrels? Questionable.
What do you think that g in scrypt could be Grundig mark?

I have a Grundig 16ga. hammer gun. Very nice craftsmanship and probably the most original gun I have. Eighty five percent case colors and beautiful damascus 30 inch barrels. The swivels for the strap need to be reblued though. Maybe someone left the strap on to long and it absorbed to much moisture.

Regards, Gordon

Gordon:

Pleasure us with some pics. The leather seems to dry out with the exception of a brass fitting which will corrode to the tune of the colour green and other than that I can't guess for now.

Geno:

Very low probablilty for the lowercase script (gothic?) g being for Gruendig as by the time this example was made he was more than likely sourcing components if not longarms from Suhl. Just right off the top of my head the only combination for the "CS" initials by the "Crown" ovef "U" would be for Caspar Schlegelmilch, who was a expert tube maker by WWI and his operation was funded by ole Ernst Wilhelm Schlegelmilch. The D.R.G.M. 60198 may hold info to the sourcing of the combo example. I'll see if I can search for it this morning. If possible let's see side pics of the frame.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse