doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com H&H Royal Rook and Rabbit Rifle

This rifle been converted to .410 smooth bore gun. Very good condition and asking price $4,000. What do you think about that, is it worth $4K beeing in not original caliber?
Any idea about weight of H&H rook rifle, could it be good .410 gun?

Barrel legnth 66 cm (26").

It seems to me that most Rook Rifles are in non original calibre.

I was told once by an old gun dealer in Bath (now long gone sadly) that when the UK Home office introduced the firearms certificate legislation, many Rook Rifles and Double Rifles where bored out to 410 rather than owners risk them being confiscated etc. Many Rook Rifles were also sleeved to .22rf or 22 Hornet. Back in 1993 he had a whole heap of lovely British Double Rifles all of which had been bored out to 410 and destined for the US.

Rook Rifles tend to be pretty light - 4 to 5lbs, but of the few I have looked at, they balance as a rifle (weight forward) rather than as a shotgun.

Rook Rifles (IMHO) tend to go for a very high price. But if I was looking for a 410 to use as a shotgun, I would either spend $4,000 on a really nice side by side double, that was built as a double shotgun, or to spend a lot less on single barreled 410 British shotgun - we are paying £150 to £200 for a clean one over here, and then spend the rest on something else.

no it's not worth $4000.
there's one at auction this month in original calibe estimate is $1200 high. I think it will go for around $2000

Mike, can't agree with you. There were some actions, where older H&H rook rifle in fair conditions were worth more, than your estimation
http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9057481

And the same Royal 295/300 caliber for 2,400 GBP
http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159245894

IMHO overbored smooth bore barrel rook rifle in such condition has to go 1/2 price from original, ie aprx. $2,000. I allways wanted very light single barreled .410 gun to shoot great snipe over my dog, but seems rifle converted to smooth bore gun is not what I'm looking for.

We'll see Geno.

For many years I collected and researched the Rook rifle. I have some remaining examples, one of which is by H.& H. Details of which are as follows;
H.& H. serial #6067, circa 1880. The gun action is;Side-Lock, Outside Hammer,ejector,The action is marked marked;"J. Thomas patent #3091 0f 1871".This superb gun/rifle has been converted to.410, with nitro, reproof for 2 1/2 chambers.The origional hexagon steel barrel has been taper turned for 18 inches from the muzzle blending with the origional hexagon with three spherical radii; reminicent of barrels seen on some early single barrel fowling pieces.The superb stock is pistol grip with steel heel plate and grip cap. The action has 40% scroll cover and retains traces of case colours.
This rifle is one of four types made by H&H it is described in detail in Colin Greenwood,s excellent book,"Rook and Rabbit Rifles," pages 89-93. This scarce rifle was available with optional extra.410 barrel.In 1900 it was awarded Grand Prix at the Paris exhibition.
I paid $600 for this gun in the U.K. in 1970.
As a matter of interest, many of the rook rifles in this era, sold by the, "high-end" London gunmakers were made by the Birmingham firm of Samuel B.Allport. Having no Heir, Samuel Blakemore Allport, shut down the business and accepted the position of "Proof Master' at the Birmingham Proof house.At which time he was noted for conducting tests on the strength/cost of various grades of damascus and steel gun barrels and for developing a crusher type pressure test barrel.

Is any rifled liners available for .410?

Here's one source I found Geno:
http://www.mcace.com/shotguninserts.htm
Jim

Rook rifles were once very popular here in Britain but few were made after about the end of the First World War; most being made in the 1880's. The vast majority were made for the trade by a handful of Birmingham makers. They were falling from popularity long before the Firearms Act of 1937 brought rifles onto certificate requirements. Ammunition continued to be made but it was cheaper to go out and buy a .22rf. and use that. A lot were converted to .410 mainly because of the cost of ammunition and the need to show a requirement for owning it to conform with the legislation. The ones converted to .410 often had the octagonal barrel turned down to the round for the last 2/3rds. of the length making them a bit more handy as a shotgun. A friend in the trade will reline the barrels; if they are still octagonal, and chamber them for .32 S&W or a similar round which is very like the original in performance. I have one rook rifle with the name Ebrall Bros. on which was converted to .410 and the barrel turned down to round for 2/3rds. its length. It shoots well. Looking at the Proof Marks the work was carried out in 1939/40. I have two in original form; one in .300 and one in .360. Ironically, they are now classed as antiques and can be bought and sold without restriction if they are not intended for use. If used they just need to go on a firearms Certificate. Original ones are now quite sought after. I shoot a competition that has an annual meet for just these type of rifles and some real gems come out. Anyone interested in further information on these guns might be interested in getting hold of a copy of The Classic British Rook & Rabbit Rifle by Colin Greenwood. Lagopus.....