LG. Re: your question on the TM pressure in your Fox guns. Prior to some friends dropping Bi shot and rolling my own I used store-bought Bismuth loads of 1 3/8 oz. Those are probably consistent with the TM pressures (a guess) and my Fox A handled many a shot with no apparent ill affects. Re: your original post, I have/had 11 uncles, 2 paps and a dad that used 97s and 12s almost exclusively. That was during the 50s and 60s and that is how I remember duck hunting. Those guns and the ever present do-all farm dogs for retreiving.