Rocketman (and Miller), my statement that perhaps we should all be loading our 12 ga. hulls with 28 ga. wads was, of course, facetious. I had hoped that was self evident. To me, it was, but, likely, not to all who are reading this discussion. I am also aware that Guagemates "work", but I am skeptical that their use can impart any magical miraculous qualities to a load that defy physics. I expect that a wad skirt blooming out .09" would still contain a lot of the gasses behind it... I just doubt that seal would be anything near perfect. I wouldn't expect a perfect seal, but one that was "good enough." I have seen too many materials from simple leather cups to steel rings to exotic polymers, running in near perfect bores, without the piston running in a bore that suddenly opens .179" in diameter, and know that they all leak (if only a miniscule amount). One pass through a bore is different from multiple passes. I have no doubt that all shotgun wads leak far more than could be tolerated in a multiple pass system. Perfection would give us the exact same force. Don't agree with this statement. A perfect seal would only mean we had all the gas contained and the highest possible pressure possible within the system of shell, Gauge Mate, and gun barrel. We would not know how the wad base force was affected without knowing the pressure after expansion into the barrel. If the loss of pressure due to expansion and leakage turned out to be less than the gain in wad base area, we would see higher velocity. If the loss of pressure netted more than the gain in wad base area, we would see reduced velocity. Remember, forec is pressure times area. We know the new area, but not the new pressure. Anything less would be a loss, however slight. Yes, but a slight loss in pressure due to a small wad leak does not automatically translate into lower velocity. It is entirely possible that the increase in wad base area more than compensates for the loss of pressure due to both expansion and to leakage. Any thing more would be impossible, save for some gain from more efficient powder burning in the larger bore as you theorized, or the pressure spikes or detonation I theorized. Or, the force is higher due to the net of the expanded wad base area times reduce pressure still being higher. But I roll my eyes when some speak of magical 13% gains. Like you, I am not aware of detonation issues with shotguns, for sure. I am very sure that pressure spikes and detonation do not factor into this issue. A spike or detonation would for sure reduce the efficiency of the system and, if contained, result in lower velocity. I am aware of unexplained shotgun ruptures. They may be due to unknown bore obstructions, dents or barrel defects, or who knows. I know that a friend claimed that it was much reduced loads that blew up his brothers' Beretta O/U back when we were in high school. But I can't prove he was telling the truth as I only saw the aftermath. This friend did play with reduced loads, but he also made up loads that would have left Roy Weatherby shaking in a cold sweat. All I know for certain is that big brother was pissed. Big time pissed. Finally, like you, I too am interested in what is true. I said as much a couple pages back and also said much of this discussion is conjecture. Now conjecture based upon education and years of practical experience beats wild assed guessing and data from the U.S. Journal of Wildly Innacurate Information (a source I may have used to complete one or two late night, last minute term papers). But it is, without extensive unbiased testing, still conjecture. What that means ultimately, I hope, is that we can have these lively and thought provoking discussions, much like those my buddies and I have at the Camp (sometimes fueled by beer and bourbon)... and in the end, remain friends. For sure we remain friends. It must be possible for friends to debate issues without getting personally angry. I much enjoy lively debate that challenges what I think I know and makes me consider new angles or information. Thanks for the discussion. Keep it coming!!
