Yeah, well, Chuck, your are a 410 kind of guy! I like em too, BUT: Last weekend we had a bunch of family out to do onerous jobs, and my Stepdaughter brought along a 12 year old who had never, NEVER fired a gun. When we had a break (dont give em many) went out to my clays range. Started the kid with a 28, couldnt hit his a** with both hands. Put a 12 Double with some Joe Wood lite specials in his hands and he broke 11 straight..."Nuttin to it" he says...and there went 2 2lb coffee cans of loads...NEAT!