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"Great Lion Battle of Leipzig" circa WWI???

F.W. Vandrey cornered the market in Hamburg by being probably the largest and was “the” outifitter in Hamburg. Up until circa WWI, various makers outside of Suhl/Zella-Mehlis sourced their components and completed their customer’s order in house or purchased longarms “in the white” from Suhl/Zella-Mehlis. Post WWI and after a devastating loss of craftsmen due to the conflict, the whole of Germany sourced the craftsmen of Suhl/Zella-Mehlis for their orders. Robert Schüler of Køln/Cologne appears to have been the contact to the sourcing of Suhl or due to family connections owned a shop there or an interest in a facility of another name. Ernst Steigleder of Berlin & Suhl is another strong possibility as early on he had a close working relationship with Sauer. My hats really off to this fella because I believe he had the funds and connections to obtain the rank of Hofbüchsenmacher, or some similar title, as evident by this photo of Ludwig Schiwy(2nd from the left) and Ernst Steigleder(2nd from the right) and others of the Diana hunting club of Berlin, probably at a competition shoot.


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lifted from Fredik Franzen article

But Ernst Steigleder chose to go it alone solely on his own name and merit. In my book there’s a lot to be said about that.

Ludwig Schiwy at some point owned the F.W. Vandrey & Company firm and it’s name is seen on examples and scopes peddled by J. Nowotny and many others. Ernst Steigleder heirs and assigns give Ludwig Schiwy as being born in the 1880s and I guess him to have obtained his master’s brief before WWI. The interval between the wars seems to be the peak of Ludwig Schiwy’s career with Hermann Goering and his inlaws as clients, had at least one fixed sight patent and looks to have departed this world sometime in the late 1950s in West(?) Berlin. Post WWII and as a consequence of WWII Ludwig Schiwy was reduced to peddling airguns and ammo.

Stahl & Berger was also of Hamburg and of course sourced such craftsmen of Suhl such as E. Schmidt & Habermann, Kerner indirectly thru the F.W. Vandrey & Company firm and I’m sure others. Post WWII it appears that most of the craftsmen of Stahl & Berger migrated to Hartmann(Gerhard) and Weiß(Otto). Hartmann, Weiß & Martin Hagn are somehow connected to the F.W. Vandrey & Company as well as Stahl & Berger. Hartmann looks to have been on his Journeyman walk-about relatively close and either worked at F.W. Vandrey & Company and/or some area or hunting preserve referred to as “Büma on the Höltigbaum”( http://translate.google.com/translate?hl...l%3Den%26sa%3DG ) while Otto Weiß was at Merkel in Suhl, Glaser in Zurich and on to Purdey’s in London with his walk-about after escaping East German in 1958 more than likely on a fast track Journeyman program similar to Mr. Dietrich Apel. In the early 1960s Ottow Weiß returned to German to found the business Hartmann & Weiß with his old buddy Gerhard Hartmann. 6 years later Peter Nelson of Purdey left Purdey to join Hartmann & Weiss and after 3 years returned to London to open a branch Hartmann & Weiss office. With that it seems as sourcing has become global and come full circle.



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Can anyone described what's on the muzzle?
Ah, I couldn't get the pic to cooperate so look here for
"Ludwig SCHIWY Berlin Doppelbüchsdrilling 2x8x57IR 20/70 mit 3 Ejektoren" a few over a baker's dozen down here:
http://www.feine-jagdwaffen.de/cms/index.php?id=8,0,0,1,0,0

Anyone have any info on the F.W. Vandrey & Company firm?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Axel, any idea which W mechanic, if any, used the encirced rooster as a trademark? This is on a F.W. Vandrey Hamburg peddled example.








Serial number looks to be W158.



Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

Your scholarship never fails to astound me.

Best regards, Clay

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post277780

Makes one wonder if the chicken stamp is the same.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Stumbled across this F.W. Vandrey example which was repaired by E. Kerner & Company and looks to have been originally made by E. Kerner & Company prior to 1939 even though it is a blitz action.














Good image for the ZM proofhouse post 1939.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Have not read Fredrik's undoubtably excellent article, but as a point of information; Gerhardt Hartmann and Otto Weiss met whilst working at Vandrey post WW2.

Best,

C.

I have an Ernst Steigleder 1922 drilling 16gax2 and 8.3R. It has a 2 power Zeiss scope. Does anyone else have one of these or know much about them?

Rog

May have been sourced from Sauer as they were real chummy. Post some images & let's have a gander. Otherwise forward them to me & I'll gladly post them for you. Y'all still have mule skinners & Mountain Dew/Tennessee Tranquilizer up that way?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

You are probably aware; but just in case. I note that the rifle tube is a J bore; that is .318, and not the more modern JS .323 bore. You will need the earlier ammunition. I think RWS and Sellior & Bellot still make it. Lagopus..... Apologies if you were aware.

I realize this an ancient posting. That being said, I have been searching for the source of "Vandrey, Hamburg" for years. I purchased a 1959 production Walther PP .22LR in 2004. It is stamped on the frame just aft of the trigger, "Vandrey" on the left side "Hamburg" on the right. I would like to thank you for solving the mystery for me. Have a good New Year!

Thanks again,
Ron

Wolfgang via KI(Künstliche Intelligenz)/Ai(psudeo version of course, has found some most interesting info on the Berlin contingent of Retailers like Ludwig Schiwy, Ernst Steigledger, etc. along with Otto Gottlieb Scherell(Ballistol), Horst Goeldel(Probably the Best German Shot of all times), where members of the Jagd-Klub Diana Berlin dominated the Shooting Circuit and peddled their wares whilst doing so. Other actual makers like Paul Collath, Franz Collath, Franz Kettner also were fantastic competitors and also used the circuit & events for sales. This is a very similar modell that Charles Daly used to tout, as well as sell, his wares making a small fortune along the way. There's a tonne of info via KI and I will get it sorted.

Basically what these competitions did was to protect the German mechanics from being over-run w/ foreign made platforms. Take the above mentioned retailers, the pressed their wares w/ their name atop into service and proved thru stout competition that their platforms were superior.

Top shooters of interest were Horst Goeldel of Berlin/Grunewald, Gustav Koch of Derneburg, Dr. Rudolf Sack of Leipzig/Düsseldorf, and Dr. Kurt Schoebel.

But they may not have held a candle to Franz Denk driving the Omnibus to the Vienna Shooting Grounds.

Much more later....

Hochachtungsvoll

Raimey
rse

Too, I forgot to note Albert Preusß, the Technical Director of the German Hunting Klubs. He looked to be QA/AC between Shooters & Makers/Mechanics.

Hochachtungsvoll

Raimey
rse

Just received on Wednesday: a "Vandrey" Drilling, actually made by Sauer & Sohn, proofed 1035, in stunning quality. Serial number in the 6000s.
I think the Sauer ledger had been sort of rediscovered in the Suhl town archive some years. So research might be possible

Indeed, the Sauer & Sohn ledger is in the basement of the Old Suhl Jail in the archives.

Pleasure us w/ some fotos or forward some to me & I will get them posted.


Hochachtungsvoll

Raimey
rse

Have not forgotten your inquiry Raimey. The trick is to find out the correct model number. As I learned, the Latin and the Arab numerals are not sequential, and a Model XXX is a totally different gun from a Model 30.
Anyhow, my Drilling is either a Model 30 or 32. It does not have the usual left side safety, like most, but instead the external swinging safety lever which blocks the cocking pieces. Called "Schlagstücksicherung", which probably was a special order upgrade.

The quality is very high; engraving is "feine Englische Arabesken", with the accentuation on "fine", and its execution is better than of the most Sauer game scenes. Overall, if compared to the well-known and highly esteemed ($$$$) normal Mod 30 Luftwaffendrilling, mine is by far the better gun.
I do not own Jim Cate's book (which is quite expensive - when you find it -; it costs more than *I* paid for this Drilling), and the former Swedish Sauer collectors' website of P.O. Haggards seems sadly defunct. Would anybody have access to the reprinted 1938 Sauer catalog?

Regards,
Carcano