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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4
Boxlock
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Boxlock

Joined: Aug 2009
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I am new to the site but i was wonduring if anyone can tell me anything on a K. Davey s/s and and Alex Martin s/s i have both but cant find too much info on either one.

Last edited by Baby Huey; 08/31/09 05:21 PM.
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Hy Huey....never heard of Davey..But Martin put out some good stuff...Look up Grayham McKinley @ GlasgowGunmakers
..they have Alex Martins for salen now n again.
Slap up some pics...I for one would like to sse 'em


Boxlocks..Sidelocks??????
Franc

Last edited by Franc Otte; 08/31/09 06:15 PM.
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Boxlock
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well i hate to say it but i have no idea what the diffrence is. I am a recent collector of doubles but must admit my knowledge is very limited if any at all. I have decided to go a diffrent path than my father that collected winchester lever actions and have just gotten into doubles with some o/u like a winchester 96 and a 101 then the martin and jus recently purchased the davey. i was told buy my dealer that he belived it was scottish or english and around a 20's model. i just know i thought it was a good price for a starter piece everone has to start somewhere. and my pocketbook doesnt allow for a win 21 yet but it will. but any help from you all is greatly appreciated i just love these old guns. and i can not find to many people in there 20's that enjoy looking at them as much as i do.

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Alexander (I) was a cutler and possibly also a gunmaker, a burgess and guild brother in Paisley, about 7 miles from the centre of Glasgow. In 1742 he was recorded as a journeyman with John Hyndman. He married Mary Telpher on 15 September 1773.

His son, Alexander (II), was born in 1791 in Paisley, and almost certainly worked for his father. He appears to have married in about 1814, and was later recorded living in Paisley with his wife (known only as W Martin, born in 1796), their elder son, Allen (b.1815) who does not appear to have entered into the gun trade, Alexander (III) (b.1816), and Elizabeth (b.1826).

Alexander (II) and Alexander (III) became hammermen, burgesses and guild brothers on 22 July 1835, aged 35 and 19 respectively, this must have been almost immediately after Alexander (I) died. They were admitted to the Incorporation on 28 August that year and both their "essays" were gun main springs.

It appears that Alexander (II) established his business in 1835 at 153 Trongate, Glasgow. He and Alexander (III) traded as gunmakers, fishing rod and tackle manufacturers. It also appears that they left Glasgow to return to Paisley in 1837. Alexander (II) was recorded in the 1841 census living at 28 Oakshaw Road, Paisley, but he was not recorded in any census after that date. Alexander (III) returned to Glasgow in 1837 to establish the famous firm Alexander Martin gunmaking firm at 179 Argyll Street. In 1842 he moved to 181 Argyll Street, and in 1844 to 18 Exchange Square. In 1848 the firm took additional premises next door at 20 Exchange Square (later re-named Royal Exchange Square).

In the 1851 census Alexander (III) lived at 96 North Hanover Street, Glasgow with his wife Isabella (b.1826 in Glasgow), no children were recorded.

In 1852 the firm's address was given as 20 Exchange Square, but they may also have occupied number 18.

In 1854 Alexander Martin described himself as a gunmaker and cast steel rifle barrel manufacturer.

In 1856 the firm moved to 28 Exchange Square, and in 1861 to 22 Exchange Square.

In the 1861 census Alexander was recorded living at 3 Rose Street, a gunmaker employing 5 men and one boy. Nobody else was living in the house.

In 1862 the firm was recorded at 20 Royal Exchange Square.

In 1863 he described himself as a gun and rifle maker.

Between 1886 and 1890 the firm's address was given as 22 Royal Exchange Square, but it would seem that they continued to occupy 20 Royal Exchange Square. Their address in about 1893 was 20 Royal Exchange Square.

In about 1897 the firm described themselves as gun makers and makers of pistols, sportsmen's implements, fishing rods and tackle, they were also taxidermists. it was in about 1897 that a branch was established at 128 Union Street, Aberdeen.

In about 1901 the firm's address in Glasgow was 20 & 22 Royal Exchange Square.

In 1902 the firm amalgamated with Alexander Henry & Co of 18 Frederick Street, Edinburgh; both firms continued trading under their own names from the same shops with the exception of the Edinburgh shop which moved to 22 Frederick Street and traded under both names.

In about 1934 a branch was opened under the name of Alex Martin at 2 Friars Street, Stirling, and in about 1938 their Aberdeen shop moved to 25 Bridge Street.

It is unlikely that the firm made any guns themselves after 1939, during the 1950s and early 1960s most of their guns were made by A A Brown & Sons of Birmingham.

In about 1950 the company were armourers to the Scottish Rifle Association and a small shop was opened at Bisley in Surrey, possibly in the Scottish Rifle Association's clubhouse. It was in about 1950 that the Stirling shop and the Edinburgh shop closed.

The firm was latterly run by Sandy Martin, but in 1965 it was sold to John Dickson & Son Ltd.

In 1971 John Dickson moved the Aberdeen shop to 35 Belmont Street where it continued to trade as Alexander Martin until it closed in 1985. The Glasgow shop closed in 1988.

The firm made its name through success at target shooting. They made Lee-Metford and Lee-Enfield target rifles, breech-loading .256 calibre match rifles, and target rifle sights. The firm's trade mark was a thistle surrounded by two leaves.

They developed a lightweight "ribless" shotgun (three short sections of rib at the muzzle, centre and breech) but because of increased recoil due to the light weight, it did not prove popular.

Information is available from John Dickson & Son Ltd at 21 Frederick Street, Edinburgh EH2 2NE; http://www.john-dickson.com/

Pete

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Originally Posted By: Baby Huey
...i can not find to many people in there 20's that enjoy looking at them as much as i do.


I recommend doing what I did relatively recently.
Turn 30...!
And infect other people with the disease...!
RG

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I can't find any listing for Davey either. I am just awaiting Nigel Brown's volume 3 on British Gunmakers so will check in that when it comes. It is not unusual to find British guns with no details as to the Maker as it is usually the vendor's name on the rib. A lot of guns were made in the general trade and ordered by small dealers and hardware goods stores and they had their name put on. The Alex Martin will most probably have started life in Birmingham and been finished by Martin's to their style and requirements. British guns are a bit of a tangled web. If you get a copy of Vintage British Shotguns by Terry Weiland there is a lot of useful information in there for the American collector although I disagree with some of his assertions about British social history. The other book I would highly recommend is Vintage Guns for the Modern Shot by Diggory Hadoke who also post in this forum as Smallbore. Both will help with your understanding. Some pictures may give clues to your guns. Close details of proof marks may well date them accurately and the address on the top rib of the Davey may help me come up with something. Welcome to the world of double guns. Lagopus.... in England.

Joined: Nov 2005
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Originally Posted By: Baby Huey
... I am a recent collector of doubles but must admit my knowledge is very limited if any at all. ... any help from you all is greatly appreciated i just love these old guns. and i can not find to many people in there 20's that enjoy looking at them as much as i do.


Welcome,

I hope you as time goes by, you are able learn a bit here. There are many fine contributors who have a great depth of knowledge to share.

You are not alone. There are several members here in your age bracket. Just forgive the rest of us when we have a "senior moment" or two.

While you are building your collection also build your library. You may even find that some of the books end up having more value than some of guns you purchase.

Several members have stated that Davey was most likely a dealer. I also believe this to be true. If you can post pictures of the guns in question, perhaps others can help even more.

Pete

Joined: Jan 2002
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Huey, with all respect, if you don't know the difference between a boxlock and a sidelock yet, you probably shouldn't be buying SxS's yet. If you do buy, it's going to cost you some serious cash to learn that difference and a host of other things about these vintage guns. I speak from experience here, having invested significant tuition in my own SxS education. You have found one of the best and most inexpensive places to learn right here.....take full advantage of it. Read and ask questions. Go to a gun show with a knowledgeable member in your area. Visit one of the dealers recommended here just to look and learn. It will save you big money and frustration down the line.

Joined: Mar 2005
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Wait for the dealer that wants to sell a W. Richards for only $2,000 dollars!!!
"Well it says W. Richards on the side don't it and I know of only one W. Richards and I've been selling guns for as long as you've been born, son"
"And for only $2,000 dollars you're getting a genuine Westley Richards"
He may be completely honest and has absolutely no clue regarding the history of the Belgium clunker market ripping off English names.

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Yes, don't be afraid to ask questions. We all had to learn somehow. Diggory's book is a good starting point on the how to's and what for's on British guns. Lagopus.....

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