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Keith does your DS have letters/numbers stamped into the forend hangar? Also does it have a round knob pistol grip stock without a grip cap? Very unusual to find damascus barrels on any Syracuse Lefever gun graded lower than a G grade.

TwiceBarrel, I am pretty sure my damascus DS has a semi-pistol grip stock. I will try to dig it out tomorrow and let you know, and check the forend hanger for letters/numbers as well. This is a gun I bought on an online auction and the seller said it was fluid steel. I almost sent it back, but Robert Elliot advised me to keep it because of the scarcity of damascus DS grades.

Keith some photos would be nice also.

Thanks

There have been a few DS grades turn up with Cocking Indicators, Doll's Head & "Composite BBls". Most of these have been very early ones & I believe assumed to be pilot models put togrther using H parts.

All of these I have been aware of had twist bbls like the H rather than damascus. Are these bbls true damascus as opposed to Twist or are you using the term generically? Does it have the doll's head rib extension?

They are indeed twist barrels and have the dolls head rib extension. I did not get a chance to dig it out yet to check if it is semi-pistol grip or to look for numbers/letters on the forend loop.

I checked my twist barreled DS grade this evening and it is semi-pistol grip and has no numbers or letters on the forend hanger. I did notice a couple things I had not noticed before. There is a letter I stamped on the left barrel flat next to the lump. It is very distinct, but stamped diagonally. There also appears to be most of a letter H on the left barrel next to the forend hanger. Also, on both barrels ahead of the chambers is what appears to be ??? & Co and a small cross and an elongated triangle. The lettering on ??? & Co is mostly struck off, and I assume this is the barrel maker. It is barely visible under magnification, but the cross and triangle marks are distinct on both barrels, though pretty small. This gun is serial no. 590xx which would make it much later than s.n. 36364 which was the probable entry of I and DS grades according to Elliots' books. All serial numbers on the gun match and it is in very nice condition, but not much case color remains. One of these days when time permits, I'll have to learn to post pics.

PeteM on the Lefever forum gave us the following data on Suppliers of Lefever tubes marking.
LL Leon Lechercq
LLH Laurent Lochet-Habran Belguin
SB&Co Sanderson Bros.& Co English
ADH Jacques Delvaux & Heuse Belguin

Craig

Craig,

Thanks.

That list was for some of the damascus barrels that people were asking about at the time. It can be expanded to include;

rounded crown over a D, Delcour-DuPont, Belgium,
pointed crown over a D, Deidere, France,
Whitworth, England
Krupp, Germany

The SB&Co marking can be debated. They established a company here in Syracuse, NY. This allowed them to avoid the tariff situation. Some have suggested other companies for the marking.

The "elongated square" or rhombus, which I am beginning to suspect is an importer's or exporter's mark, as it shows up in too many places. That is to say, it shows up on barrels that also have maker's marks which can readily be identified.

Eventually it all bleeds over to the same sources as Ithaca barrels, once they took over the company.

Pete

Just as a wild guess I would highly suspect this gun was finished up from parts on hand by Ithaca, with several H grade components being used. By this SN I believe an H grade would have already acquired the scroll work engraving on the side plates. Does this gun have that or are they bare. Quite possibly the H grade sideplates were unengraved & they simply fit the gun up with DS wood & finished it up as was, graded & sold it as a DS rather than finishing it up as the H from which it had obviously started its life to be. The twist bbls were from a higher priced grade, so this would not have been seen as detrimental.

Keith sorry to belabor the point but does the "semi-pistol grip" have a grip cap or a round knob?