doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Hook shimming

I know this has been on here before, as I had saved it once. Computer melt down lost this particular post. Does anyone still have it saved, or can someone go through the process again, including preferred glue? This is a home remedy on a practice piece.

Possibly it could be saved on the FAQ section.

Thanks.

Pat

Cyanoacrylate gel has been known (to me) to work. It has been known (to others) not to. Low temp solder and flux paste probably better; maybe Swif 95. Either way you need some sort of steel round bar for a caul or negative of the shim you're trying to hold in there (Mike Orlen uses round transfer punches which come in sets and provide a selection of diameters to suit). Need a C or bar clamp. Need a heat source if you solder. Need everything clean and degreased whatever you do. I don't think a little "tooth" accomplished with sandpaper on the back side of the shim hurts. Maybe you need water in the barrels or a wet rag on the bottom rib if you solder it. Need to make sure you're not putting more shim in there than you need.

jack

I believe Mike Orlen originally posted this picture.

Thanks for the advise and the picture.
I seem to recall some consensus on using Lock-tite Red, or something to that effect. Does anyone use that adhesive?

If you can do it with thread locker, you could do it with flour paste. I don't remember that particular bit of insanity. Apparently even cyanoacrylate is a bit of a long shot as the only place it can get moisture for curing is from your hot breath.

jack

I wouldn't do it with any of the above even to a junk gun.
Get it fixed by a professional the right way....or sell it to some Cowboy Action shooter.
L.F.

". . . home remedy on practise piece." Devil loves a coward; go right ahead and learn how to do it by doing it. Get some steel shim stock and think about soldering it.

jack

I might well be mistaken on the "Locktite", but I am quite sure that some had used an industrial strength glue with Red in the name and possibly some number behind it. I can't be dreaming this. There must be someone out there who remembers this.

For all of the naysayers.

How about this one? Try some scotch tape.

Clean the hook and make sure there is no oil. Apply, one, or two layers. Rarely will it take more than that. Then a small spot of grease on the tape.

This is good for a couple of rounds of skeet or a round of sporting clays.

This is also a good way to determine how thick the metal shim you will use for a permanent repair needs to be.

Tin / aluminium foil also works for a short period of time...

another tip, no need to buy shim stock, an old feeler gauge chopped up has loads of different thickness stock, and is readily available, and cheap.

Jonty

The scotch tape fix marksman mentioned is a suprisingly good one. I was once a sceptic but I've used it on a number of slightly loose doubles with amazing sucess. It lasts almost all season if you are careful about cleaning the hook prior to applying it.

thin double faced scotch tape and shim stock works and it can be easily removed.

I have used metal duct tape for temporary fixes, it lasts longer than scotch tape and is about the right thickness, it comes with its own stickum plus it is easier to trim than scotch tape. Jim

I used a piece of 0.002" stainless shim stock 3 years ago, and it is still fine. Cut piece to fit, insert into action and close it. Check fit, if okay, then remove. Clean everything. Put one small drop of slow curing cyanoacrylic glue in the middle of the shim, put it in place, close the action making sure the shim is in the right place. That is it.

Someone suggested a small shim bent around a round pencil and kept in place with axle grease. He said it worked for years and never fell out.

How did he keep the pencil from getting crushed?
JUst kidding. My grandfather's GH had that for years. It disappeared somewhere along the way.

Black-Max 380 Locktight is what has been recommended by others. I did one on the hook of an 80 year-old Nitro Special and it is still holding up nicely, I used 50/50 solder and filled the tubes with water so as not to overheat anything. And HOmeless Joe, only an abject idiot subjects a gun to the average gunsmith for refitting. The soldered shim is the least intrusive of all remedies and does not harm the integrity of the hook as some guy filing a dovetail and inserting a strip of metal. Chopperlump

Feeler gauge stock is hardened and ground, and doesn't bend and conform very well, and stainless shim stock might be a bit aggresive (tougher) than the hook material. An article in the DGJ mentioned that a fellow with a Nitro Special (someone correct me if I have the make wrong, but, it was a lower end gun for sure) that was used for several decades with a piece of brass sheet stock, cut to a rectangle, and lubed. Owner used the gun with duck loads heavy enough to knock some sense into jOe (or, not) for many, many seasons, and sold it to someone who did the same, knowing about the low-buck repair.

Paper packing used in the printing field to pack the cylinders of the press would seem ready made to do the job, and comes in .002-.004 thickness. Regardless of what you have been told about "quality" repair by someone who can't define exactly what that might be, paper is used in this and other examples of high load shim applications every day. Wood and paper were used in bearing applications for centuries before metal was up to the task, and several machines at work (modern presses and folders) use oil soaked wood bearings to this day.

My Darne 12 looks pretty good when conversations about off-the-face repairs come up.....
Best,
Ted

Here's the "Silver Bullet" fix. Drink a can of Coor's beer, enjoy, cut the can to get the rectangular piece the size you need. Place it in the hook and try the barrel on the action. If it's too tight, you can shorten the piece you cut by about .060 and try it again. The pin will shape it to the hook, so keep cutting the .060 off and when the action fits right, glue it in place using either "Shoo Goo" or "Mechanics Goop", both available at Wally-World. This stuff will glue anything to anything and hold till you cut it out with a knife. If you ever wear this shim out, which I've been unable to do, repeat the process, and as always, enjoy...[brand optional].

binko

Steel shim material is available from Brownells,I bought the package and have enough for several life-times. If you are doing one gun and need shim stock email your address and thickness needed, I will send you enough for 3 or 4 tries. Hint; measure play with a feeler gauge and deduct a little for the glue or solder.

Jim

Jack is spot on, as far as he took it. I'd only disagree with his last sentence. If you're gonna do it with solder and steel then you're going to have to apply a too-thick shim and remove the excess in order to get the wedge shape you need. If the barrels are off face they need to be set up and back. This means that after achieving a good fit you will have removed most of the added metal from the bottom half of the hook. Your shim will taper from maximum thickness at the top to a minimum at the bottom.

The soldering in of the shim is within the capability of anybody who's ever sweated a copper joint. I stuffed the barrels with wet paper towel (probably overkill), set the barrels up vertically in a vise, used acid flux and 50/50 solder and tinned the hook. Bent a piece of .010 feeler gauge around a mandrel (drill bit) until it took a nice curved set, cut a piece very slightly oversized, sanded it with a bit of 120 cloth, and clamped the shim in place with the mandrel and a vise grip. I applied a propane flame to the mandrel,shim and hook and soldered. Seems a little scary, but you're really applying the heat to a solid chunk of steel pretty far removed from the bottom rib. If you can solder one end of a copper T without affecting the other, you can do this. Once the shim is soldered in place, you've done no harm. At worst you've merely wasted your time if the hours of tedious smoking & stoning that follow don't produce the proper fit.