doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Difference between brazed and soldered ribs?

I have heard that there is a difference between brazed and soldered ribs, especially when it comes to cold versus hot blueing.

Can someone please give me a semi technical explanation of the two types of methods for attaching ribs?

Lou

I believe that it is between soldered and braised ribs. British guns tended to be soldered, and this can come apart with high temp bluing. Therefore, British guns are rust blued, which is bluer than salt bluing.

The term for welding and metallurgy is brazed- braised is a cooking term, a braised beef roast perhaps. In the art of joining metals, soldering- silver soldering is the least of the temperatures involved- the base or parent metal(s)are not normally distorted due to low heat input and usage of flux. The next level is brazing, a higher heat input is involved, and flux used as well-usually a coating on the bronze alloyed rod- in both methods, the dimensions of the parent metal(s) will distact to some extent the heat input and the diameter of the filler rod used- a larger dia. filler rod will require more heat to "break down" and flow-- Remember, a neutral flame from an oxy-acetylene torch will reach 6000 degrees at the cone of the neutral flame-

Welding would not normally be used in barrel-lug-rib joining, as whether fusion or with filler rod added (TIG) the parent metal approaches its critical temperature in the HAZ- heat affected zone, and distortion may occur- with a barrel, as with a section of schedule pipe- this can rsult in a severe "out of round" condition unless precautions are taken--

Soldering is done with lead and tin. Lead is soft and the tin adds some hardness to it but both melt at relatively low temperatures and oxidize easily. Brazing is done with copper and zinc which melt at higher temperatures, form a more solid bond and have a greater resistance to corrosion.

Soldering and brazing are metal joining processes based on a lower melting point metal or alloy wetting the surface of a higher melting point metal. Solder is usually a lower temperature process based on lead and/or tin alloys, but may contain other metals for enhancement of various properties. Soft solder usually refers to use of lead-tin alloys and hard solder usually refers to some silver content in the alloy. Brazing usually is based on copper or silver alloys and uses higher temperatures. Directionally, the lower the temperature, the less chance of warping the steel, but the lower the strength of the joint.

Properly tinned and soldered barrels are sufficiently durable for most shotgun applications. They are, however, succeptible to damage from hot salt blueing. They are easier to repair than are damaged brazed barrels.

Thank you, Fox.

Ah . . . brazed ribs!
Actually, my spelling is just erratic.

And you can also have braised ribs... for lunch.

JC

P.S.: seriously, thanks for the explanations. jc

One note, it is "NOT" the heat of the hot salts bluing which damages the soft solder joint. It is a chemical reaction between the alkalie & the solder metal. Hot salts blues operate around 300°F which is below the re-melt tamp of the solders used. In fact you could place the bbls in an unheated salt bath & the same effect (but no bluing) would take place, just at a slightly slower rate. It will also attack aluminum ferociously. In fact in the model shop I formerly worked in we made some fuselages of nickel by machining an aluminum form which was then built up with nickel plate & the whole placed in an alkaline (Lye) bath & the aluminum eaten out leaving only the nickel remaining.

You are welcomed there Lorne- my spelling and grammar ain't all that zippy either-just after long years in the welding/machine tool skilled trades, I knew it was brazed. Just in passing, but my favorite novel is Hemingway's "Islands In The Stream" and his character is recalling early days in Paris with his oldest of three sons, and the "braziers" meaning the coal burning stoves in the grubby cafes he frequented- his son thought he was talking about the "tit slingers" ladies wear--great reading..

almost sounds a bit like the "lost wax" or investment casting process- the sacrificed metal is disolved by either chemical or heat or possibly both, and the designed metal is left intact and to print dimensions (hopefully)-- can you explain the anode process used to maintain aluminum propellers for boats used in salt water environment please??