doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com looking for my first side by side...

L., Eye-ti SxS,
I guess I wasnt very clear but I was making a suggestion that for a first SxS he should go with a 12 ga Sterlingworth instead of the 20 he wanted. My logic was that he is just getting into the SxS game and if he is going to buy something, buy something nice and even though its not in the $500 range, a good lean shootable 12 ga Sterlingworth is a good starter gun and can be had for 800 or so. Once he figures out his basic likes and dislikes then he can move on to a 20.

L.
You are right about the Nitros in 20. A good choice in that ga. but there arent many good ones left in the 500 range that I have seen.

Hell, you cant even find a Win 24 20 Ga for that kind of money!!!

pacrat,
A gun shop about 20 miles from me has/had a Nitro Special in 16 ga. If I remember right, it is a consignment gun, but I'm not 100% positive. They were asking $699, I think. I'll be by there in the next few days, and would check on it for you if you want me to. Or I can give you their phone # and you can see what you can work out with them if you're interested. Best I can remember it was in REAL good shape.
Curtis

A lot of unstated considerations lurk beneath BP's suggestion of 12 ga "first double gun", not least of which is a weight range favorable to the first-doublegun-shooter. Someone mentioned the SKB280; wonderful little thing to carry and probably great for poke and snap but not everyone can get one going and keep it going without the yips.

I was sitting here trying to remember if I'd ever bought anything that WASN'T dubious junk for 5C. Decided I actually had: bought a reasonably good condition Brit boxlock (probably Webley & Scott) from BP for 650; 12 ga. Elsie FW 16 ga. 700$ from local consignment rack; 1911 Fox SW "pin gun" with the best faded case on the nicest "unpecked" (read unbashed, undinged, unabraded) action bar, nicest barrels, and solidest stock head innards I've seen on a SW for, let's see, yeh--500 dollars--also from consignment rack. Bought a 16 ga. Philly SW for 450 but there was a downside, external pitting. Pretty decent plain vanilla grade Charlin 12 from Thad Scott--$800. Another restocked and beavertailed (crotch black walnetto) Phila SW 12 840 from downstate gun shop. Ugartechea m221 (enhanced m30) from consignment rack 450. Very nice mid-30s NID: 850. I've had chances to buy both 12 and 20 ga. BSS sub-1k. Didn't bite; just didn't like em. AND, advice for the budget-conscious bottom feeder: mimimum customary FFL receiver fee in my neck of the woods: 25$; minimum long gun shipping: 25$ and that was a stretch coast to coast several yrs. back. Every thing you buy sight-unseen on "approval" and sometimes not at on-line auction has that 50-100$ penalty; it's still worth an occasional 75-100 mi. drive to shop or show.

jack

Thanks Fin2Feather for trying to put this back on track.

Your way would be "Much more rational, ... I dare say, but it would not be near so much like a ball"

Sorry, with all the female hormones flying around, I was sure this thread was a Jane Austen Novel?

. ...Just in case pacrat didn't actually "check out" about page 2, Kittery Trading Post has a 20 gauge - Fox B - for $450.00 @ 95%, which for them usually means nearly new in the box. I used one for a couple of seasons, shot a lot of doves with it.

Though, I still recommend the ones I initially mentioned on PAGE 1.

Doug

What is a point of owning sxs like 311, Fox mod. B, Winchester 24? Local shop has something better like 50s vintage 16ga 28" mod. Winchester mod. 12 in very good original condition for $599 which means $500 cash would probably do. Besides something obscure from France is there 16ga sxs for 500 that can beat mod. 12 16ga in handling quality?

Agreed, if he can find it, reference page 3 of this novel..

Ted, you've got to be kidding me. People go to England to buy English guns because they're cheaper. How do you get guns from France to the US and sell them cheaper than the manufacturer? Free shipping? No import duty? I'm calling BS on that one. If you can sell guns cheaper in this country than they sell for new, in their country of origin, you are one of a kind for sure.

Concerning your Brummie boxlocks back in 1980 . . . well, there's a little problem there. Outside of the Scott 700's, which were factory 2 3/4" and made for export to the States, those used Brummies were virtually all 2 1/2". Those shells were far less available back then, Stateside, than they are now. And that was long before the existence of this BB, when a lot of people learned--after much discussion and argument--that you really CAN reload 2 3/4" hulls to proper pressures and shoot them in those guns. So . . . you would've ended up paying significantly more for every box of ammo you shot through those Brummies. When you could find it.

How could the quality of a Stevens 311 suffer between the 30's and 1960? Simple: Those guns were always made to a price point, not a quality point. In order to compete in the market, Savage/Stevens had to cut corners after the war, when labor, material, etc became a lot more expensive. There's a reason both Ithaca and Marlin (LC Smith) stopped making doubles after the war, and it's the same reason the best Stevens are pre-war guns.

Options are always there, Ted. You can't take them away. Can't make a BSS into what it isn't. It will always have ST/AE. And I still haven't seen one, in decent shape, for less than $1,000. But I have seen a very nice Scott 700 sell for under $2,000 . . . which is less than it cost new, in 1980. And even if the BSS sold for $800, that'd still be twice what it cost, new. So which was the better investment? No brainer.

Actually, Ted, Browning offered everything you suggest--straight grip, smaller forend, although they still have ST and AE--in the BSS. Called the Sporter. And it even had an oil finish. And they're worth more than the PG/BT versions. You'll not likely find one of them in 12ga for less than 3x what they cost new. Make that more like 5x what they cost new if it's a 20. Just no accounting for the market . . . but that's the way it is.

As for getting something the way I want it . . . well, what if I wanted a ST and AE on a 311? Did Stevens give me the choice? Nope. And while they did make Nitros and Long Ranges with a ST and AE, you won't find many of them. And guess what? Those features drive the prices up . . . because with those features, the guns have become "rare" and "collectible". That won't happen with a BSS with ST and AE. So you see, it cuts both ways.

Brian, the problem with Winchester 24's, other than they're ugly, is that they say "Winchester". Terrible inflation on the "poor man's 21". But those guns do have good dimensions--and I agree with you that the prices (except the 12's) are ridiculous.

If we're talking 12ga, then he stands a pretty good chance of finding either an SKB 100 with some miles or a Miroku-made Charles Daly for that $500 he has to spend. Actually, if he just takes a look at Mark's Born Again Birdguns, on this website, he could certainly find himself a decent 12 for $500, and have quite a few choices.

If you were to purchase a Spanish double in Spain, you'd spend more there than if you were to buy from a dealer/importer here in the states.

There's a discussion on the "Spanish Gun" forum of Shotgunworld.com all about it.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=126&t=185051

I recently purchased a used AYA #56. If I were to custom order the gun here, it would cost about $18000. If I were to order it in Spain, it would cost about $21000.

Adam

Well, since this thing is still going on, I guess I'll jump in. Limiting oneself to 16 or 20 gauge for $500 probably means either an American hardware store gun or an obscure Spanish double. A few years ago I bought an Aramberri 20 with PG/DT/beavertail and 28" vent rib barrels, in very decent condition, for $375 on GunBroker. Just before that I grabbed a nice Armas Erbi 28 ga with PG/DT/splinter for $700 on AuctionArms. Was not familiar with either of those makers before the purchases, but learned as much as I could before making my bids. Did not get burned on either one. If you go that route, it's worth investing in a used copy of Weiland's "Spanish Best," just for the references to the obscure and defunct Basque makers, such as Gorosabel.

Having said that, I agree that a first double should probably be a light 12, because of price, availability, and flexibility.