doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Help with Value of old British Hammer Gun (Pic's)

I'm leaning towards the "2 3/4 case" engraved on the lower barrel being original. It is definitely hand cut and has the appearance of being very old, certainly not recent.

Daryl, that is interesting and yes I have seen something similar before. I think that the Proof House did occasionally make mistakes; not that they will readily admit to it! I have a damascus barrelled gun that went for re-proof to nitro and now has one barrel stamped 'sleeved'; which or course it can't be. I had a Thomas Wild hammer gun that was proofed but did not have the nominal bore stamped on it so that it was impossible to determine whether or not it was 'in' proof or 'out'. I have also seen the converse of yours and oddly enough on another Greener but this time a single barrel which was marked 2 3/4" and 1 1/8 ounce. It might be interesting if you send that photo to the Birmingham Proof House and ask about it. Lagopus.....

Roy and Lagopus, I have no memory of measuring the chambers to see if they were actually 2 1/2", but I normally do this on all guns and would have remembered if they were different than stamped. Both guns had the odd marking, and since I have seen it on another Greener, I wonder if it might have been done at the Greener's request. Sort of an overload proof ? Serial No. is 55805, but barrels appear to be later. The heavy oak and leather case they came in had provisions for two guns with a total of 4 sets of barrels, but the "original" barrels were missing when I got the guns.

Lagopus, if you wish, you can send the proofhouse the picture and question, of I can if you can provide me with the proper address.

As I understand, the proof house will proof to other than normal/standard on request. Anyone got any infor on that?

Daryl, you should be able to make contact via this link: http://www.gunproof.com/ Lagopus..... any problems then come back to me as I go down there in person from time to time.

Lagopus, I did find the website you mention, but do not find an email address, just fax and paper mail. Do you know of an email so I could send clear pictures ?

By the way, I did find that makers could request special proofs, but those guns should be marked with a crown and an SP or LP from 1925 on. I did not find any statement saying 2 1/2" cases would be only proofed for 1 1/8 oz. in the 1930s, but the connotation was that that combination was "normal". I do know that today, when having a gun sleeved , or reproofed, 2 3/4" chambers are automatically proofed for 1 1/8 oz of shot.

I recently had a Webley & Scott boxlock non-ejector that was built circa 1910 and was marked 1 1/4 oz. nitro proof and upon measurement was definitely 2 1/2" chambered. Why? Who Knows...
Over the years have seen several inconsistencies. Considering the hundreds of thousands of guns processed,the odd case of human error is not surprising.

Daryl, I believe I have the answer to the 2 1/2-1 1/4 oz proof marks on the Greener,s and on Terry,s Webley and Scott.
Major Sir Gerald Burrard [ Of shotgun fame],was the gun expert for the "Field" [1919-1933] and the editor of "Game and Gun "[1924-1945]. During all of this time he would answer questions related to readers gun and rifle concerns. The question/answer, applicable to the issue under review, relates to; "2 3/4 cartridges in 2 1/2 gun"! This is a concern raise almost weekly on this forum. Burrard points out that in some instance the purchasors of 2 1/2 inch guns in the era were asking that their guns be proof tested; "same as a 2 3/4 inch gun!" As a result, guns so tested, were stamped 1 1/4 ozs; even though the chambers remained at 2 1/2! At the time that this issue surfaced, we should remember that the the 2 3/4 cartidge did infact measure 2.75 inches in length and that its case was made from card. Burrard,s concern was that some people might try to chamber 2 3/4 cartridges in a 2 1/2 chambered gun,simply because the proof marks included the 1 1/4 ozs marking. Burrard points out, that by closing the action on a 2 3/4 cartridge the nose of the cartridge is wedged into the forcing cone of the 2 1/2 chamber. The net result being, a dangerous increase in pressure on discharge. This topic is reviewed in Burrards book,"Guns and Shooting', page 54, one of 153 readers questions answered in this book.

Post deleted by Roy Hebbes

Roy, it makes sense to me. Thanks