doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com looking for my first side by side...

Left me speachless...

I wondered how all thOse French bumper jacks got here.

treblig, sure, if our friend just wants something to shoot. He wants a double, something distinctive, two barrels, two triggers, with mounting, aiming and shooting as one smooth action without the arm-pumping clickety-clacking, all the reasons why we're gathered here on the board.

Ted, you beat the "roll pin" issue to death . . . all the while talking up the Western Long Range. Which, as we know, had a frame made of malleable iron. Since in neither case those features seem to have caused any particular problems--and both guns have been "time tested"--why focus on them rather than on the gun's positive qualities, performance, durability, etc? And on those issues, I certainly don't think that the BSS takes a back seat to either the Nitro or the Western Long Range. (Although I don't import French shotguns, I have owned several examples of all 3.) And it certainly handles better than a 311.

Back when Browning brought out the Cynergy, I was one of a group of outdoor writers given the opportunity to put the new gun through its paces. In our conversations with the engineers and executives from Browning, we asked why they did not bring back the BSS. We suggested that, at a price point of $2,000 or so--this was a few years ago--they'd almost certainly have a winner. That's from a bunch of guys who've handled quite a few different shotguns. The answer: All the Miroku employees who made sxs had retired, and the company would have to retool. Perhaps a good decision not to do it, because as Ruger learned with the Gold Label, there are some unique problems associated with building sxs.

The standard BSS 12, IMO, doesn't sell well for the simple reason that it's not the right gun for the current sxs market. It's more a traditional American sxs, similar to a Model 21: PG, BT, heavy. It's certainly not a Brummie boxlock, which is typically light, straight, splinter, DT--which are the features most sxs buyers seem drawn to these days. On the other hand, I sure wish I'd bought a bunch of BSS Sporters in 20ga. Or, perhaps better yet, BSS Grade II's or Sidelocks in 20ga. Talk about hot items on the market, compared to their original price . . .

Larry, if you read the quoted DGJ article, there is a negative bit about the BSS trigger. From my humble experience, the trigger comments in the article are kind. The BSS trigger is not of "positive quality, good performing, or durable".
While it is true the Western Arms gun has an iron frame, where is the complaint? Have you ever heard of a problem with one? And, are people looking to get 1K+ for any of the guns I posted about, including guns with mismatched parts? The original idea was a budget SXS.
Maybe just me, but, an early 311 in 16 certainly handles as well, or, better, than a BSS in 12. Plus, you could have a trifecta for the same price as a mismatched BSS 12, or so it would seem.
I wish I'd have bought a bunch of Brummie boxlocks back in the era when you were thinking of BSS 20 gauges-who would be farther ahead, Larry?
Best,
Ted

jOe,
You, being "speechless" would be a great thing.....
Best,
Ted

Hi Jim-the South Side of Chicago, the baddest part of town"-- Yup, a Ho shore ain't a gardening tool there buddy- and pronouncing Fox (I assume the AH Fox variety) can be fun- if you recall the German words "Die Weistul Fuchs" for FM Irwin Rommel-

Had a duck hunting pal named William Fuchs years ago-you can fill in the blanks here.

I agree with the 12 gauge idea- you can shoot lighter loads in a 12- ammo cheaper and easier to find (here anyway) than the bastard gauge 16-20 gauges are fine, but I'd still go with the std. 12.

I'd suggest this gent. visit both the LeFever and the Ithaca sites and shop there, possibly also GunBroker-and get a friend to advise him. The Ithaca mfg. LeFever Nitro Special is a real workhorse shotgun, not much for looks but hell for stout. A friend has a 20 ga. with 28" barrels and a single non-selective trigger his uncle bought new in the 1930's- he's shot tons of reloads in it-still works fine, just ain't a Purdy or a Parker-

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=135149545

Here's an ugly Nitro Special 20ga that fits the stated price point...Geo

That things uglier than an automatic...

Ted, how many BSS's have you owned/shot? I've had a few pass through my hands, have shot others belonging to friends, and never had a hiccup with the ST. (And please note, I'm a serious DT fan.) But I think you'll hear surprisingly few negative comments about the ST on a BSS. Fewer than on an SKB, a Parker Repro, original Parker, LC Smith, etc. Also, a ST is usually considered to be an option which increases the price of a gun. So are ejectors. BSS has both, standard. Western Long Range, Nitro, 311 have neither as standard equipment. Whether you want to pay for them is another matter entirely, but they do up the price. Just like options on a vehicle.

As for the Brummie boxlock comparison . . . I bought a BSS 20ga Sporter, brand new, 1980, for $400. Thanks, but in retrospect, I'll take all of those I could buy at $400 a pop with 1980 dollars. They'd sell for $2K a pop today. Make 5x the money you paid for a Brummie in 1980? Maybe on some, if you were especially picky about it . . . but the difference is, I would've been buying the BSS's NEW and selling them as NIB. Virtually any Brummie BL I would've bought in 1980 would've already been used. Of course we could compare to one of the few Brummies one could've bought new back then: Scott 700. Sold for 919 in 1979. POUNDS, that is--not dollars. I'll take the profit on the BSS Sporters, thanks very much!