doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Conversion - SxS Hammer gun to Cap or Flint ML ??

Not knowing anything about conversion possibilities...I may be asking a question that's way off the mark...but...not having been born with the answer I'll ask anyway:


Can a .12ga SxS, exposed hammer damascus barreled shotgun be somewhat easily converted to a caplock or Flintlock?
Would that be pretty straight forward or quite involved?

I assume you're speaking of a cartridge gun? Bill Brockway has made several muzzle loaders using cartridge gun barrel sets. Maybe he'll join in on this.

Jim, it's a SxS .12ga break action double barreled shotgun with damascus twist barrels and external hammers...trying to figure out if it could be converted to a caplock or Flintlock pretty easily or just how involved it might be.

Roundball.
The problem is the chamber. The barrels need to be breached so as to alter the chamber configuration. That is why you can't just weld it shut- besides it is a terrible idea to weld on the chamber of a gun. I know Bill Brockway. He's made some good ones. Do you have the book on building double flint shotguns???

Correct.

I figured as much...no, don't have the book...it was recommended that I visit this site and toss out the question...thanks

Thanks but I already got meaningful replies from some helpful members...

Well, it turns out this family heirloom is a SxS 1878 Colt and I won't be planning any conversions at all. Spent some time in the shop getting SOME of the century old grime off of it and have to say I'm impressed...this is a high quality shotgun.

I pulled both locks and they fit so tight that the wood in the lock mortises looks new, yet the locks were easy to remove...only one small lock screw...the front edge of the lock plate has a lip on it which slides in/under the frame then the whole lock panel sits down and the one screw holds it in place.

They have v-springs...for the world they look like medium size versions of typical Flint lock assemblies I'm used to...tumblers have no half cock notches/full cock only...internals are clean as a whistle and in immaculate condition...look virtually new.

I'm beginning to think most of the initial aged look on this old smoothbore really is from the external grime and banging around abuse from a century of ownership, moving in and out of different houses, in and out of closets, attics, etc.....as opposed to actual use, wear & tear.

This may not have been fired all that much...the bores are a little rough but more of a surface scale than pitting...might have suffered from corrosive primers and simply never got REALLY 100% cleaned like they should have been. A wire brush with steel wool around it chucked in a drill motor got a lot of it smoothed out...need to finish getting them smoothed the rest of the way.

The action and lockup is very tight... .12ga shells drop in and come right out normally, the chambers have no step, just a normal looking taper so I wouldn't think any odd shell length is called for...the shells rise up on extractors but there are no spring ejectors.

I went up and down each side of the top and bottom seams between the damascus barrels with a brass utility brush & WD40, got all the grime and crud out of there and the bare metal looks perfect...not a spec of rust or corrosion.

This Colt double is actually quite a quality built smoothbore and other than the fact that it was temporarily dirty, and the bores could be polished, its in very solid shape...a shooter for sure. I have 1000's of once fired .12ga AA and STS hulls...plenty of 209 primers and Goex...ordered some Circle Fly .12ga wads & cards today...will try some trap targets, hunt it a few times...should be a good experience

roundball-Glad you dropped the conversion idea. A Colt hammer double in good shape is not some sort of throwaway project gun. The reason there is no "half cock" is that your gun has rebounding locks. Invented by John Stanton in England about 1867. The hammer rebounds off the firing pin to the equivalent of a flintlocks half cock. The gun is probably well made and if memory serves me right Colt may have imported those doubles from England. Others more knowledgeable about Colt's may chime in and let us know for sure or you could check the proofmarks. Good luck and just clean the gun. Don't try and make it look like new. And don't forget to check the chamber length. It is almost certainly shorter than 2 3/4" and just because the gun can be closed on modern 2 3/4" shells that doesn't mean they are appropriate. Lots of us buy once fired Federal paper shells, trim the crimp folds off, giving us a 2 1/2" shell. I then use a roll crimper and there you have a shell very much like the chambers were probably made for. Don't be afraid to ask follow up questions. Lots of us are shooting hammer doubles with roll crimped blackpowder shells.

Don't want to sound too picky here but a little on lock terminology. Flintlocks normally had a half-cock notch. This was about midway of the travel of the tumbler & was generally necessary for the flint to clear the frizzen so it could be brought into battry prior to full cocking & it did serve as the safety as well. With the switch to percussion the "Half-Cock" notch was most generally done away with & a Safety notch added in with the hammer in a lower position which did not contact the cap, but also did not give enough clearance for the cap to come off the nipple. Early breech loaders for the most part retained this Safety notch position rather than a half cock. Both these notches were almost always undercut for the sear nose to prevent pulling the trigger while engaged. On a rebounding hammer there should still be a safety cut in which the sear nose prevents the hammer from being pushed into the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled. It is however not undercut. The trigger can be pulled from this position but the hammer should not move as it should be rebounded behind this notch.
The Colt SAA revolver had both a Safety Notch & a Half-Cock notch as well as the full cock. You can pull the hammer back slowly on the Colt & hear 4 clicks. 3 are the sear falling into the various notches & the other is the locking bolt clicking up against the cylinder. I realize this is a mere technicality, but "Most" post flint-locks did not have a "True" Half-Cock. A few did.