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#146912 05/08/09 10:21 AM
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I have been loading for my newly acquired 450 BPE. I have used 300gr Valiant FP cast bullets in all trials. All tests at 50Yds. I get nice regulation with 48gr of IMR 4198 with 13gr of Dacron. Only problem is I'm shooting 8" high.
I have just tried RL #7 and get the same high results.
Other than to change the front site is there a reloading modification to change height of the Point of Impact??
Thank you!
Bob Jurewicz
An interesting aside! I tried loading down the IMR 4198 and went down to 38gr and 14gr dacron. Group lowered-regulation acceptable-BUT PRIMERS POPPED SLIGHTLY AND SHOWED EXCESSIVE PRESSURE.

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Bob if the group is a good group it's much easier to change the sight than it is to mess with what's working. I'd leave the front sight alone and file the rear sight.

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Thank you Mike! Groups are very good!! The rear site is as low as it can go.
Bob Jurewicz

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On a hinged or drop-down rifle, when you see pressure signs you are a good deal over design as 400 NitroExpress posted in a recent, previous double rifle post. You usually can't note pressure issues in a double rifle from what you see in a bolt gun.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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Raimey,
What I saw at 40 and 38gr of 4198 was the primer flatened, more than at any other much heavier powder weights tested, and slight protrusion of the primer from the pocket. Did I misread this as a sign of pressure??
If I did. I would like to return to the lighter loads to have an easier shooting gun.
I have been following Sherman Bell's recipes in his article of DGJ VXVI Is 3. I really like the low pressure shown by the RL #7. I have tried both 48 and 52 gr of RL 7 and find it shoots just like the 4198 in my gun.
I am beginning to wonder what the recipe was for this gun when it was made in the 1890's. What ever it was, black for sure, It must have shot to point of aim with these original sights.
Thank you!
Bob Jurewicz

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When I first starting shooting vintage British double rifles I was using a sight picture showing plenty of front bead. All my loads were shooting high. I than learned that most of these guns were made so the bead is deep in the "V" of the rear sight.

This fixed my problem.

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Quote:
An interesting aside! I tried loading down the IMR 4198 and went down to 38gr and 14gr dacron. Group lowered-regulation acceptable-BUT PRIMERS POPPED SLIGHTLY AND SHOWED EXCESSIVE PRESSURE.


I'm not surprised. The 48 grain load sounds about right. The 38 grain is way too low. Primers backing out due to substantially lower than standard pressure is common in double rifles.

One of the most common complaints I hear about vintage double rifles is that they shoot way low or high with the original sights. It's usually load or sight picture. Keep in mind that the sights for your rifle were probably filed in for 270 grain, not 300. You might want to try 270 grain. That will make some difference in elevation, but not as much as you're seeing. Many of these older British rifles were set up for a six o'clock hold on the bottom of a 6" bull, with the bead buried in the bottom of the V.

If you're not able to solve the problem, have J. J. Perodeau make a new front sight, and keep the old one. I never file the rear express V on a prewar British rifle. Change the cheap part.

Can't imagine wanting to shoot lighter than standard loads in a .450 BPE as opposed to a .450 Nitro Express. But maybe I'm just used to Nitro Expresses.


"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."
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Thanx for the response Nitro Express!!
I'm beginning to think that I'll just hold low like you said I'm confident I'll be able to hit those Texas pigs I intend to try this gun out on.
Also, I believe I can make the new front sight. It appears to be a common dovetail a little larger than .25". I'll find something at a gun show that I can adapt.
Bob Jurewicz

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Originally Posted By: Bob Jurewicz
Raimey,
What I saw at 40 and 38gr of 4198 was the primer flatened, more than at any other much heavier powder weights tested, and slight protrusion of the primer from the pocket. Did I misread this as a sign of pressure??

Bob Jurewicz


A possible misread but still an indication of something occuring outside the norm. Also having velocity data would be beneficial and nice to see and once you're in the appropiate velocity range you know that you have at least one of the variables correct. I wish it was easier to attach pressure devices in order to also get pressure. The only force holding the primer in is friction and upon a constant pressure looks to be time dependent. Evidently a lower powder charge has a longer duration or a duration of constant pressure that pushes the primer back. I'm attempting to collect more data to try to get an idea. I've seen the same thing regarding the primers as well as the 8" differential. Some of the double rifle owners I know consider J. J. Perodeau to be their person of choice specifically for double rifle regulation as well as double rifles in general.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Last edited by ellenbr; 05/09/09 11:21 AM.
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Next experiment. Hollowpointed the 300 grain cast lead to 289gr and loaded 46gr of RL#7 and 14gr dacron. Waiting for OK weather to test. I like the looks of the RL 7 low-low pressures and good velocity. Still using Bell's DGJ recipes as a guide.
If I get something I like I will use the Chony. I feel I am still in very safe territory.
Bob Jurewicz


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