doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com ATF regs. How to do something wrong, but legal?

Gentlemen, This is a topic that has come up here before, but this question has to do with the easy resolution to the problem of a Dealler not knowing the regs. If a dealer will not send his license to you(me) so you can mail him a longgun for his customer, but perfers to send it to another FFL dealer, how do I and "my" dealer procede since this is an additional step in what should be a simple thing? Could I just have a dealer(mine) give me his address so I can forward it to the out of state dealer who can then mail "my" dealer the license, who tells me where to send the shotgun? Thanks, Kurt

Tell the buyer to find another FFL.

I know it sounds harsh, but the extra (not required) steps just make it harder for everyone.

My first choice would be to tell the seller to use another FFL, who abides by the ATFE rules, and tell him(the FFL) why.

Kurt,
a third vote for having the buyer find another FFL.Even if you are able to convince the one he has now to send his to your dealer (a FFL dealer is NOT required on sellers end),he will probably not accept the gun when it arrives from you and cause even more issues.
Tell the buyer to find another FFL or find another buyer
Dave

Look at it another way. FFL dealer accepts gun from you, a private person across the country. Buyer fills out fed form and takes the gun home. Buyer does somehting stupid and gun blows up down the road and buyer is injuredd. Who do you think buyer is going after? Seller who may not have a pot to pee in, or FFL dealer who should have known gun is defetcive, after all he's in the gun business? And he has insurance. If dealer at buyers end gets gun from another FFL dealer at sellers' end, now at least two dealers and two insurance companies are invovled. Extreme example, may be. Another situation; FFL dealer accpets the gun from you, a private person across the country. Buyer says it's not as described and doesn't want it. Dealer can't legaly return gun to private person who shipped it to him. Hassle for dealer for very little profit on handlng the transaction. If you are the FFL dealer at buyer's end what would you do?

I see no reason the dealer cannot just hold the gun and give notice of storage charges which will accrue till the seller provides him with a valid FFL to ship back to...Geo

P.S. Thought about that a minute...Seller has the buyers $ and would RATHER not ever see the gun again.

If the receiving FFL does not know the rules of his business, then he ought to be out of business. If he chooses to not follow the rules of his business, then he ought to be out of business. Either way, I would not deal with him.


The absolute cheapest FFL that I can find around here charges $85 for a "simple" transfer. Not bad for 15 minutes of paperwork, and certainly profitable. When I have had to return a gun that I choose not to keep, I pay again for his time to pack and ship, since I have never taken possession of the gun. Either way, my FFL makes money on virtually every transaction. He follows the rules and regs and doesn't screw with me or the shippers. It's not that tough.

your kidding right?

there is zero liabilty in a transfer,unless the 4473 or NCIS check was done incorrectly.
There are thousands of guns bought and sold by private "unlicensed' individuals every day can you show one,just one case that even comes close to the senario you just described involving a 01 FFL dealer as a transfer agent?

if you send a gun to an ffl to repair, engrave,transfer he can return it to the legal owner who sent it.if the gun is refused.mc

It's the CYA thing many dealers are doing to have a better paper trail on the gun coming into and going out of their hands. Can't blame the mind set these days, based on reality or not ,,, but as stated,,it's not legally needed unless there's a State law that dictates it.

As far as returning guns to owners sent to an FFL:
If the gun is sent for gunsmithing work, yes it can be returned to the owner w/o going through an FFL at the owners end.

If sent to the FFL for sale or transfer (disposition) then it cannot be sent back to the original owner w/o going through an FFL at the other end. (Though some dealers just log the rejected gun as a 'repair' and then send it back to it's owner)

Even a gun left on consignment in a shop that doesn't sell must be logged back out through a 4473 and a NICS check to it's original owner if he/she wants it back (in person) or to an FFL if out of state,,because it didn't sell on consignment. Same thing if you send it there for transfer to someone and they decide they don't want it.