doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Transferring Shotguns out of state

Same as a private letter ruling from the IRS. Those take a couple of years to work their way through the system.

From the ATF website:
(E5) How much time does a dealer have to record acquisitions and dispositions of firearms in his or her "bound book?" [Back]

Generally, licensees have to enter the acquisition or purchase of a firearm by the close of the next business day after the acquisition or purchase and shall record sales or other dispositions within 7 days. However, if commercial records containing the required information are available for inspection and are separate from other commercial documents, dealers have 7 days from the time of receipt to record the receipt in the "bound book."

If a disposition is made before the acquisition has been entered in the "bound book," the acquisition entry must be made at the same time as the disposition entry.

[27 CFR 478.125]


I (have a 03FFL C&R)book a gun in as soon as it arrives.The few times I have called the ATF they have been both polite and informative,however I do go by the written rulings as that all that would stand up in court.

Written regulations, no rulings.

They make contradictory rulings based on their own regulations all the time.

I would have no problem in a compliance inspection if I use the written regs as far a bound bookn and have seen no ruling to suggest otherwise.If there is a ruling that overules the written regs that I have sent with my license I have not seen it,Nor is it in any of the info they have sent me on a regular basis.

You have until the "the close of the next business day" to enter a acquisition acording to [27 CFR 478.125]
Nothing else said here,or anywhere else will matter if your in front of a judge except that.

If YOUR gun is returned to an FFL on your end, after the buyer refused it, does the FFL on your end do a 4473 transfer to you? If so, who is it transferred from? Does he do a background check on you?

Dave K, the ATF info you cited applies to "acquisition," "purchase," and "disposition" of a firearm. But, the issue that started this thread is a transfer in which the FFL does not acquire, purchase, or dispose of the gun (not under any reasonable definition of those terms), so do those regs actually apply in this case? The requirement to record by the close of the next business day is sort of consistent with what I had understood from my FFL (i.e., book it within 24 hours of receipt), but is inconsistent with Hugh Lomas' understanding. It appears that a lot of us are confused (not pointing any fingers here).

Some perfectly qualified gun buyers/owners do not pass Instantcheck. If such a person sold a gun out of state, it was refused by the buyer, returned to an FFL holder, that person couldn't get his own gun back. You may question my statement, but some states, (PA is an example), have arbitrary criteria for Instantcheck that prevents some perfectly qualified gun owners from passing the Instantcheck. Walt's situation may be caused by the pawnshop rules that exist in at least my county in Maryland. If a gun shop or pawn shop receives a gun from a private individual, he must report it to the police, hold it for a certain period of time before he can dispose of it. That supposedly gives the police some time to determine whether it has been reported stolen. That is why a dealer in my county cannot legally transfer a gun immediately if he has not received it from an FFL.

Look at all the confusion over interstate transfers. If the government decides to close the intrastate (gunshow) loophole in the Gun Control Act, the ALL transfers will have to be done through FFL's...Geo

The city of Los Angeles seems to have a similar practice. If a gun comes in on consignment or pawn, the dealer has to hold it for 30 days while the stolen gun checks are run (this per a large multi-site dealer with stores in L.A.). After that there is still a state-mandated 10 day wait for the buyer to be cleared and to take possesion of the gun. In other cities, the gun can be sold the day it comes in, but the buyer still has to wait 10 days to take possession (again, per a dealer outside the L.A> city limits). We don't have to worry about the gunshow loophole, because that was closed years ago.

Realizing I am "only" a 03 FFL holder and not a dealer or God forbid a lawyer(although 99.9% do ruin it for the rest).I have also worked in a fairly large gun importer,retailer in the past and booked in many guns and been through a compliance inspection.
If the gun at a FFL (dealer,pawn,C&R)arrives it must be booked in by the close of business the next day,no matter what anyone "says".It does not matter where it came from,if its on the licensed premise and not in the book your in trouble.

The question about returning a gun interstate unlicensed person.I can only find two regulations and neither fit this senario.
The return for a repaired gun from licensed gunsmith (no 4473 or Brady compliance necessary.
The return of a unsold comsignment gun (4473 and Brady complaince required)

"If"I was returning a gun that was shipped on my license. I would not return a gun to a unlicensed person,interstate, without someone showing me a ATF regulation that supports that act.I have seen nothing official (with ATF reg number)posted here that allows it,nor I have found anything in my search.If there is any,with ATF regulation-NOT what someone at ATF said, please post it.