doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Transferring Shotguns out of state

Hi John,
I haven't looked in a couple yrs now, but my recollection was that the law said the shipper was required to ship to an appropriately licenced party or some such words. What I gathered from reading it at the time was that the law didn't prescribe how to verify a party was licensed, just that the shipper had to send it to a licencee.

Is there a change or did I misread this?

Chuck

Is this correct??? I would think that once the proposed buyer 'recieved' the gun from his FFL and it has been 'transferred' to him, a return to the seller would be a 're-transfer' and have to go through an FFL.

Not disputing you, Jim, I'd just like to know for sure...Geo

Dealers, listen to Jim Legg and go to Jail! He is totally wrong!


John Boyd

If the gun is REFUSED by the buyer, and if it has NOT BEEN TRANSFERRED by the FFL, then is it not still the property of the seller, since the transaction has not been completed? The buyer does not own it at that point (or does he?), the FFL does not own it, so it would seem that shipping it back to the "owner" (i.e., the seller) would be completely legal. If no transfer has occurred, has the transaction been completed to convey ownership? I think not. Where are the contract lawyers?

Newbern seems correct, but only if the gun has been transfered to the buyer. If the buyer refuses the gun, then there is almost certainly no transfer. If the transfer has occurred, then, by default, the buyer has "accepted" it. Just say no.

I have done it, twice. Even if the 4473 has been filled out, it can be torn up and thrown away. Neither of the two times I have done it caused anyone to go to jail. In both cases, the gun returned was returned directly to me(it was still mine). The gun has not been transferred until the buyer decides to keep it.

As an FFL holder, like Mr Boyd I am required to know the law , not speculate on it. When in doubt we discuss with our ATF office to get clarification. I was advised within the last three weeks that receiving from an out of state shipper ( individual)for another party care and control of the gun has passed to me. I must log it in at close of business and it should go in my Acquisition & Disposition Book. It can only leave to the original
owner via an FFL in recipients state. In addition to the Federal Laws and my home state laws I am also required to comply with any and all state laws in the sender/recipients state. It is, I suspect, for this reason that FFLs are becoming increasingly reluctant to accept non FFL shipments involving transfer from out of state.

Hugh, does that mean that a FFL gunsmith, cannot return a gun to an unlicensed owner who had work done ? I think the reg's do call for the gunsmith to log the gun in and out, though.

Hugh, Doesn't the BATF reg give you 24 hours to log the gun after receipt by you? If the potential buyer sees and refuses the gun within that 24 hour period (that's why I pay close attention to tracking numbers), and if you have not yet logged it, do you have "control" (not ownership) of the gun? If it has not yet been logged, can you not ship it directly back to the original owner? If it has been logged, can you not perform some minor inspection/repair (e.g., lube the ejectors) and return it directly to the owner as a repaired/serviced gun? In many cases, the cost of the minor repair will be less than the FFL fee on the seller's end to get his own gun back. I realize that many FFL's do not know one end of a turnscrew from the other, but you are an exception.

No a repair is treated differently,( Different book), Although care passes to the gun smith control ie authority to dispose of
does not. Interestingly sending a gun out of state for consignment sale and pawn transactions also give the FFL/Pawn broker authority to dispose of and therefore require return via an FFL if return is inter-state.