doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Transferring Shotguns out of state

Dogon, the point of my rant was that some (not all) FFL's are unnecessarily increasing the difficulty for all of us to to engage in our hobby or business, even though we follow all applicable rules, laws, and regulations. Some of these FFL's are doing this because they don't want to spend the time to understand the regulations of the business they are in, so they create their own rules without telling anyone. If I'm a buyer and I don't understand the rules that my FFL MUST follow, then the onus is on me to get the transaction straightened out. If, on the other hand, I have not been informed by my chosen FFL that he will follow a different set of "rules," established by himself and unsupported by law or regulation, then the problem is both mine and the FFL's. Whether it's a $500 gun or a $50,000 gun, the FFL has no right under law to hold the gun because of his own arbitrary business practices. If he refuses to release or transfer the gun, the law is on the side of the buyer and CAN be used to secure the release of the gun. If you can work it out without using the courts, that is always advisable.

Regarding your point about the buyer's inspection period, that inspection period is generally considered to be three days. In CA, we have a 10-day wait on long guns, so the FFL will be holding the gun well beyond the inspection period. We can't even take the gun to a gunsmith for an inspection. Thus, that point is irrelevant in CA, but not so in certain other states.

My problem is with FFL's who create their own rules, beyond what the law requires. I will not do business with them, because their arbitrary rules are usually born out of ignorance or fear, or are politically motivated. This indicates a lack of intellectual capacity, at best, or a sense of vindictiveness, at worst.

P.S.: You can't use f***ing lawyers in small claims court (here), and the small claims limit is $7500 (here) so that does cover most guns.

Walter said it well, "He can operate his business anyway he wants to."

As an FFL holder who primarily uses it to ship my own guns and projects, I almost never take a gun from a non-FFL unless it is a client. There is a certain insulation from gun crime and legal situations in the legitimacy of an FFL and it is my choice to do business as I please. I would accept a gun from Walter anytime, a man of know integrity who uses his name in public, but I'd think twice about receiving one from a fellow calling himself Dogon or Replacement.

It only makes sense to check it out before you ship to avoid bringing potentail hassles upon oneself.

Looks like you're one of the unnecessary troublemakers who needs to learn and follow the laws regarding FFLs. Insisting that an FFL is used on the sending end does not accomplish a darn thing. The shipping FFL does not do a background check on the seller. All he does is cost the seller more money and inconvenience. All without being required by law and all without accomplishing anything to do with potential crime.

Steven, as I previously posted:


To that, I would add, "or excessively cautious."

If I were doing a transfer with you, you would have all the information you would need about who I am. If you choose to have excessively restrictive practices, I simply won't do business with you. Nothing personal, it's just business. Your caution will waste my time and money, and I can go elsewhere for the services I need, in full compliance with the law.

Steven,
Do you actually think if I would be shipping a gun for you to receive and do a transfer on, that I would use my BBS handle of Dogon?

I can assure you that we would have spoken to each other before I would ship the gun to you. I would make sure as I've stated before that you are OK with the transaction and when you received the gun you would have all of my information including Full name, address, contact phone #'s and a copy of my drivers licence for your record keeping.

I view the internet handle very similar to the CB call handles that everyone used back during the CB radio craze.

MHO. Everybody gets to express one.
Nothing personal, it's just business.

Steven, I still like your work, even though I won't do an FFL transfer with you.

While some FFl's refuse to accept a gun from a non-licensed person for some or all of the above reasons, there is the situation where the buyer (to whom the FFL intends to transfer the gun) looks at the gun and says "I don't want it, send it back". To whom does the FFL return it. I know that this has been hashed around before several times, and some feel that it is a gray area, but a strict interpretation of the ATF rules indicate that the FFL who now has the gun may not send it to a non-licensed person. A gunsmith who has the gun for repair may return it to the sender/owner but an FFL agreeing to do a transfer does not fall into this category.

There are a few dealers in the audience...what do you guys do in that situation? Do you simply retun it to the non-licensee or have him send you an FFL to whom you can return the gun?

Many dealers are just over cautious on things. For example, I have run into a few dealers that when I ship to them, they want me to fax an ffl before they fax me theirs. Also most dealers are requesting an ffl be inside the box, as they want to have a copy for their files. They think that the receiving dealer is require to have a copy. This is not true, as only the shipper is required by law to have a copy.

In regards to sending a gun back, you must send it back to an ffl holder. On the couple of times that a customer refuses the gun after inspections, I have had to send it back to a dealer that the seller had to use to receive it back. If the customer decides he doe not want it and I explain that I have to send it back to a dealer, then he can take the gun and preceed ahead as he sees fit. Once its out of my control, he can handle the return based on his confort level.

Best


John Boyd

If the gun is refused by the "buyer", it may certainly be returned directly to the "seller", as it is still HIS gun. No FFL is required on the seller's end for this.