doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Transferring Shotguns out of state

I know this has been discussed recently but I cannot locate the post. Can anyone direct me to the ATF regs for transferring a shotgun from a non FFL to a buyer, through his FFL in another state. Specifically North Carolina to Maryland??

Walter, Under the ATF's FAQ the line on shipping through the USPS explains a nonlicensee in any state may ship to an FFL in any state. I don't know if this answers your question or if you require the specific regulation for your purpose? ATF REGULATIONS Title 27 CFR CHAPTER II sections 478.29, 478.30 and 478.31 are pertinent- unfortunatly I found them once, but can't again!

UPS will also deliver your gun from you to an FFL. Completely legal.

Walt-
Maybe this will help?
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b7

Thanks fellows. I have it recorded now. The MD dealer won't accept a firearm from an unlicensed person and I wanted to quote the Federal law for him. Of course he can operate his business anyway he wants. Thanks again.

Many dealers will not accept firearms for a non license person, I do, but other may not. I am seeing this more and more.

Note: If you are going to send it UPS, you must go to the actual UPS hub, not one of there quick ship centers as they will not accept firearms


John Boyd

Find another dealer. I wouldn't use this guy, just on principle. We have enough regulations to deal with, and it's totally unacceptable (to me) for a dealer to impose additional constraints that are not required in the law. He's either lazy or stupid, and does not deserve your business. But, it's his right to be lazy or stupid.

Doug, Thanks for the link.

More and and more it seems that there are dealers around the country not wanting to except guns being shipped to them from individuals. Personally I think this is the dealers fault for not asking in advance what you want a copy of their FFL for when you request one for doing an FFL transfer to them.

I found myself in a situation a couple of years ago. Where I shipped a gun I was selling to the buyers FFL dealer. I received an ink signed copy of the FFL and shipped the gun to them. Shortly after it arrived, the buyer called me and said his dealer would not release the gun to him because it was shipped from an individual rather than from another FFL. He then also would not release and ship the gun back to me because I'm not a FFL holder. To say the least this got real ugly, before it all got worked out. I had a pit in my stomach for over two weeks while this shook out.

From then on I get a phone # for the FFL that I'm going to ship to and make a phone call to make sure they know the gun is coming from a private seller. All of this could have been avoided by the receiving FFL holder asking a couple of questions when you request a copy of their FFL wanting to do a gun transfer through them. "What kind of gun are you wanting to do the FFL transfer on? and Who will be shipping it to me?" It's that simple!

If you, as the seller, had abided by the terms of the transaction with the buyer, and if you already had the money from the buyer, then you were done. It became the buyer's problem to collect the gun from the FFL that he selected. If the FFL wanted to hold the gun because you, as seller, did not have an FFL, and if he did not disclose before shipping that he would not accept a gun from a non-FFL, and if you were otherwise in compliance with applicable federal, state, and local regulations, then the buyer could sue the FFL for specific performance (i.e., release the damn gun). The FFL does not have the right to convert or hold the property of others (i.e., the buyer) just because he has a policy that is not supported in law or regulation. Most guns would fall under the limit for small claims courts in most states, so that would be the place to file the suit. The problem with small claims is that the judges/commissioners are not the sharpest tools and probably have no idea what the FFL rules are, so take all the applicable regs with you, have the relevant sections highlighted, cite your authorities, and be prepared to recite them to the court. Some FFL's are just idiots, and some are thieves. This whole scenario is the buyer's problem, unless the FFL disclosed his policy in advance. The easiest solution for the buyer in your case would probably have been to find another FFL in his locality to accept and release the gun, then have the first FFL ship it across town. It's a PITA and adds cost/time, but it may the best solution in this situation. And never, ever do business with the first FFL for anything, ever again. And tell him why you won't do business with him. If he chooses to be an FFL, it's incumbent upon him to know and follow the rules of his business. If he does not want to understand and follow those rules, he deserves to be out of the business. Period.

Replacement
It's really easy to be the tough guy here. It's a whole different thing when the gun your selling is $8000.00 and you have given the buyer an inspection period. I try and treat everyone I do any dealings with the same. I try and show friendship, respect and lend a helping hand if needed. I helped resolve this problem and we didn't have to get any F**'in lawyers involved. The transaction was $8000.00 so small claims court wasn't an option. I'm in Colorado the buyer,gun, & FFL holder are in Georgia. So lawyering up would be a serious & expensive PITA. Yea I suppose I could have been an A**hole and said, I've got the money and you need to figure out how to get the gun from the dealer, but that's not how I was raised.

The point of telling my story was. Do yourself a favor and call the FFL your about to ship a gun to and make sure he's good with receiving a gun from a private individual. A simple phone call will save you a bucket load of hassles!! I do this because as I alluded to before, some FFL's won't ask a customer what he wants to do an FFL transfer on or who will be shipping it. After the fact is not the time to be asking questions as I found out.