doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com For all you LeFever fans.

So if it IS the real thing, that's obviously an even bigger deal. I gather that the badly done case color job may have weakened the metal in the frame ... can steel be retempered (or whatever the correct term is), or once it's been softened, there's no going back? TT

Black powder loads for this would be 110 gr which is approximately 4 drams. Pushing either a 405gr ( .9 oz ) or 535 gr ( 1.2 oz ) bullet. So the original pressures would not exceed a stout 10ga shotgun load.



Pete

Remember that 4drams of black is pushing that .9/1.2 oz solid slug into a rifled bore of about .458", not a .729"/.775" smooth bore (equal charges in a smaller bore = higher pressures). Chamber pressure will indeed be higher. As a wild guess I would think in the 20K range. However it needs to be understood, chamber pressure is critical primarily to the chamber walls. They are going to be much thicker than those of a shotgun bbl on that same action. The critical factor for the action itself is not chamber pressure, but "Back Thrust". Several factors play a part in Back Thrust, but a big one is case head area in proportion to the pressure acting upon it. As the head area of a 12ga shotshell is approximately 2.64 times that of the .45-110, then based soley on that we are looking at about 8K in the shotgun being equal to about 21K in the rifle. Other factors of course have to be calculated in & I do not consider myself knowledgable enough to make a solid recommendation. I would think the higher internal pressure of the rifle round would cause the case to take a firmer grip on the chamber walls, thus reducing back thrust at the time of highest pressure, but other factors may offset this. One thing for certain though, simple PSI is not the final answer or no shotgun would be capable of handling a .22LR, they have higher chamber pressures than a shotgun.

The frame and side plates can be annealed to relieve any stress induced by the irregularly applied heat. The frame can then be case hardened as it would have been when new. It was never tempered to begin with so nothing has been lost.

Cary

Miller,

You are correct. I was avoiding the scenic route.

I had Kearcher's article sitting next to the computer and was just too dumb to flip it open. I believe Uncle Dan was loading some potent medicine in those actions. Keith guesses there may be fewer true Lefever double rifles than Optimus grade guns.

Pete

Pasquals Law would dictate that pressure would be equal on all internal parts of the case, but of course, the base is thicker. I think Miller is probably correct about the back thrust, as in hydraulics, force = pressure x area. If the same rules apply to cartridges then a .45-70 at 20K psi would probably stress an action more than a .222 Rem. at 45K psi. I assume double rifles that handle the large Nitro Express cases or .458 magnum class cartridges with pressures exceeding 35-40 K psi must be stronger and have more locking surface than the average double shotgun. I do recall reading that sideclips actually help with breeching strength. I wish I knew more about it, but I guess if it was easy a lot of us with pitted bore L. C. Smiths' and blown up Foxes would be converting them to .375 H&H flanged double rifles. I saw a fairly nice looking .45-70 double rifle built on a Savage 311 on Gunbroker a couple weeks ago. I imagine it might be OK with low pressure factory loads safe for use in Trapdoor Springfields, but not the high horsepower loads I use in a Siamese Mauser conversion.

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to what this authentic yet recolored double rifle will bring next week? I know several interested parties and believe it will cruise way over the high estimate. The last authentic Lefever double rifle I can recall selling seemed to sell for near 10x the low estimate of this gun. Thoughts?

Josh, what is your interest in this gun and it's price. Do you or someone you know own it ? Odd posts.

The last Lefever double rifle I remember being sold was 3 or 4 years ago. It was the Howlett rifle which you spent lots of time downgrading, --------for what reason ? It was 100% correct . Did you or someone you know bid on it? Your statement about the last one bringing 10 times the estimate is not factual. Or maybe you know of an auctioned double rifle from Lefever within the last couple of years that brought that. Nobody I know has seen such a thing. What auction was it ? The Howlett rifle brought $8000 or close. What do you say ?

Daryl
Im pretty sure its DADDY'S gun. He had sent me pictures of this same gun about 6 or 7 years ago before I stopped talking to him. I found the pictures on an old computer and I will be forwarding them to you and other concerned partys.
Your right about the Howlett gun and it was a stright up gun. If it sold for 10X est. it must have had a $800 est.
Bob

Thoughts?
I think somebody is trying to rig the auction.
I think I will be an amused bystander.

Bob, Had it been torched when you saw the photos?