doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Who made this Westley Richards DR?

I have found 10,75x55R in the net, unfortunatly no aditional info and no photos.
400NE, how do you think about price in this fair condition?

Geno:

I could only offer a wild guess. Such rifles in British calibers are common, so comps are readily available. For British doubles in comparable European calibers, I know of none.

Doesn't sound like this cartridge (10.75/44 Cordite, 346 grain bullet) is greatly different from the .375 No. 2 2.5" Flanged (40 Cordite/320 grain bullet), or say, a .450 Nitro for Black. Roughly the same power level, suitable for the same range of game. I think it was probably ordered by a European for use on driven game, deer and boar. Kinda fits the straight hand. The fact that the cartridge is not British though would, I think, be a detriment of value in comparison to similar rifles chambered in comparable British cartridges in this country. Nice British doubles in .375 2 1/2" Flanged or .450 NFB don't bring what more desirable chamberings do, and I think this one would bring less. Since I know of no comparable sales for a rifle like this, I'm really kinda poking around in the dark. A Westley boxlock in .375 2.5", say $12-14k. This one, maybe $8-10k if the bores are nice, less if brass availability is a serious problem. By comparison, were it a .450/.400 NE or .450 NE, twice that or more.

Suggest contacting WR for the records. Be sure to include the T prefix, as Westley had a number of tables.

Hope this helps.

If the cartridges in the photo match the chambers, it appears by Dixon's book to be either the 10,75x60R Grundig or 10,75x60R Mannlicher. These two are nearly identical with a 12,5mm base diameter and a 14mm rim. The 346 grain (22,5 gram) bullet weight was pretty common in German 10,75s.

Dixon mentions that the Grundig version was produced from near 1900 to about 1933 and was loaded by most of the German and Austrian cartridge manufacturers; it also appears in the 1911 Alfa catalog which may have information about bullet weight which Dixon does not list.

He shows the Mannlicher version as being produced by Roth with a timeline of 1905-1914 or so.

For the "usual" double rifle shooter this one would probably not have much appeal even though it looks like it is in great condition. For people looking for the unusual and unique in double rifles it would be very desirable. This rifle probably is one of a kind.

if ammo can be found it would bring pretty decent euro amount as it could be used for say driven boar shootin'. birmingham stuff like this usually bears army & navy co-op name, so wr&co is a pleasant surprise.

Not sure what you mean. Birmingham boxlock double rifles like this usually bear the name of a London maker, of which Army & Navy was only one of many. Army & Navy's boxlock double rifles varied in quality from very good to excellent, because they used top trade makers. Westley Richards made some for Army & Navy. Most came from Webley & Scott. Having experience with both, I prefer the Webley boxlock DR to the Westley, as I feel Webley made the better double rifle action. Many Webley A & W C and PHV-1 model boxlock DRs bear the Army & Navy name, as well as a host of others, like Holland & Holland, Lancaster, Gibbs, Evans, Alex Henry, Rigby, Lang, etc. Webley also made double rifles for Westley Richards. I just handled this one. Its a standard Webley PHV-1 model:

http://www.drake.net/westleyrichards.577

Westley Richards No. T7781, Webley & Scott No. 13458. Engraving pattern is Webley's and is identical to that found on Webley DRs built for many other makers, which means Webley almost certainly finished this rifle and supplied it to Westley complete.

With pre-war British boxlock double rifles, the name engraved on it doesn't tell you as much as you might think.

Are you referring to the HL Mark on the barrel? I ask because I have a WR in .22 Hi-Power which also has this mark and it would be good to know that my rifles barrels were also signed by Lilley...?? What was Lilley's role in the making of Double Rifles at Westley Richards ? By the way my rifle also bears the T suffix on the serial number.

Sorry for transgressing from the Topic...

Best

400NE, this double rifle at Lewis Drake site made in London. Did W.R. firm have any gunshop in London?
Why this London boxlock is so expensive? Modern W.R. .577 boxlock is worth 46,500 UKPounds ($61,000) plus extra.

lewis drake caters to big "money bags". he is at ole' drug store location and medicina can be very expensive in america.

Yes, they had the Westley Richards Agency, a retail outlet. Likewise Webley & Scott. Neither had factories there, both made guns only in Birmingham. This rifle was made in Birmingham.

I assume you're referring to the London proof. That's meaningless. By the turn of the century, Birmingham makers proving their guns, especially rifles, in London were commonplace. I've been researching the pre-war Webley built nitro double rifles for a while now, and have written notes on 60 or 70. I've never seen one proved in Birmingham. Even those retailed by Webley themselves bear London proof, although they certainly weren't made there. Westley Richards did the same thing, although not as reliably as Webley did. Same with many other Birmingham makers. Doug Tate covered this pretty well in "Birmingham Gunmakers".

Yes, the mark is "H.L". He was a barrel maker, and also moonlighted heavily for the trade. Three generations of the family worked for Westley. There are 9000+ Westleys with T prefix numbers.