doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Value; pigeon guns v. game guns

And that's because German contraptions tend to be, well, esthetically questionable.

Some are, some aren't--awfully subjective anyway. Here's an interesting review of a new Merkel, which are shadows of the old ones. http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/276350/Merkel_303_20bore_shotgun_review.html

Lowell in your opinion what makes a pigeon gun a pigeon gun ?

Thanks HOS for your informed viewpoints. I guess part of my objection to the Merkels is the deep and massive top lug system -is that the Kersten design? Probably also why I don't like the older Belgian Browning Superposed either- the Berettas seem to be slimmer in the juncture of barrels and receiver. I'm also "Old School" set a lot of store by the late Paul A. Curtis- in his 1934 book "Guns and Gunning" he expressed his distain of the German shotguns- "Germany, where some of the world's worse shotguns are being made", and was a devout "Anglophile", shot British best sidelocks most of his adult life I believe. You are right about the name recognition- Purdey, Rolex, Steinway and the inherent quality that "marque" brings to the market, new or "previously owned". A good friend with some experience in "London Bests" once advise me that "If you ever win the Irish Sweepstakes and decide to buy a Purdey or Churchill or Holland & Holland or Boss 'used' remember that most were made to fit the original purchaser, and aren't 'off the rack' like your field grade Model 12's" I am sure he was right-

Nice to see you haven't lost your 'sense of humor' there HoJo. I won't attempt to answer for Lowell: BUT- any gun you can cleanly kill pigeons with is a pigeon gun.

Shotgun guru the late Rudy Etchen shot some fine Purdey guns, but he also shot and won some sizeable purses "on the circuit" with his fabled Remmie 870 12 bore. I would think we'd all agree that 12 gauge is the standard here- chokes, barrel lengths and shotshell selection-variables I am sure. Of course, if you have bribed the City Fathers of Memphis so that you can 'pop off' the pigeons poopin' on the Peabody plaza- I'd go with a "suppressed Ruger .22LR, scoped and with sub-sonic hollow points- a favorite 'hit man' weapon for another kinda pigeon- a "stoolie"-- Good huntin' RWTF

Francis, do you dislike German guns because of Curtis? I do not like the Merkels either BUT there is a lot of Sauers and Daly's that I would and am dying for. Such as that damascus sidelock Sauer in the current Shooting Sporthsman Magazine. I just could never make a blanket statement such as that.

tim

Truth is very few German shotguns can poke their head's out from under that blanket.

Good question Tim. Most of the German shotguns (including the Drillings) have the cheek pieces, inset trap doors for gadgets (not like the BP on a M-1 Garand or M-14 for cleaning rods)sling swivels and some have the garish carved stocks- But last Sat. I looked long and hard at a Lindner Daly 10 bore- 32" made for the US market I'd guess- DT, AE- spinter, half-pg- fine engraving, top of receiver cocking indicators, and for it's 9.5 lbs. weight-better balanced than my former HE Fox (same aprox wt. and barrel length)- Very impressed. Just because I have read and re-read Capt. Paul A. Curtis' 1934 book doesn't mean I buy" his views 100%- much has changed since 1934 in the World gun trade-

I am a bit "Old School" however, and just as I have hated to see the machine tools, etc. go "Chi-Com" (I treasure the Brown & Sharpe, Stanley, Lufkin, and Starrett tools of my relatives that rest in Gerstner (made in OHIO) lined tool boxes in my "Den-gun room") and they feel as right in my hands today as when my GrandFather taught me to read a micrometer "sticky tight". So even back in 1934- assuming I was "in the chips" like Joe Kennedy or Dr. Charles Cadwaller Norris of Chestnut Hill (old money) I'd have bought an American side by double, and nopt one from England, Germany, France, Italy or Timbuktoo.

I saw a fine Sauer und Sohn 12 ejector double, DT, pg, splinter believe 28" metric equiv. length for $900.00- Heavy like a 12 gauge M21 or a VHE Parker on a No. 2 frame- but closed like a bank vault and very fine triggers and well timed ejectors (I used snap caps with the owner's permission).

Still keeping that older BH 16 in mind for you- I only will buy a 12 or possible an older std. 10 bore gun, not just as an "investment" but that's what I shoot best-but unlike you and your boys, I don't hunt "small birds"- no grouse or woodcock or quail in my game plans-RWTF