doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Value; pigeon guns v. game guns

j0e, your replies are starting to sound more bitter by the day!

[quote=Lowell Glenthorne I've always been taken back by the heavy gun and the owner's need to declare it a dedicated fowler, or pigeon gun.
Hey! it could be just a heavy ol'gun.
No such stories needed with the light sidelock ejector 12b gamegun.

[/quote]

Heavy guns were made that way for a reason; there was purpose in the weight. In no particular order of importance:

1. Heavy guns allow the shooting of more powerful shells without punishing recoil,

2. Heavier guns generally require more swing effort and, as a result, have smoother/more stable handling,

3. Heavier guns are as robust to heavy loads as light guns are to light loads,

4. A cheaper gun can be made more robust by adding weight.

High phesant, light fowler, and pigeon guns share a lot of similarities. It is difficult,usually, to tell the exact original purpose. Also, keep in mind that if one is to choose a single gun for all shotgun shooting purposes, this is the most likely purpose class of guns from which to choose. Most American built guns were heavy not because the American makers didn't know how to make a light gun. Rather, they were heavy because Americans bought a duck gun as first priority and then used it for everything. Those who purpose bought the lighter American offerings bought game guns for the uplands.

Not always true, many guns were mass produced with little thought going into the gun other than how cheap and how many.
Today's buyer would rather be told its a duck/pigeon gun than a farmer's seed store gun.

Can't agree, LG. The steel in a gun cost a lot of money back then. A cheap gun would have been made as light as the design vs power of likely ammo vs projected number of shooting cycles would allow. The JABC seed store guns, which still had to pass Belgian proof, were made just heavy enough to withstand a reasonable number of American powerful loads; neither unlimited number of cycles nor unlimited power. You have to admit that those old guns were remarkably robust for what they cost. I don't think anyone confuses these with pigeon guns. Duck guns, yes, because that is about what they were. IMO, a duck gun with a typical load also makes a might fine chicken coop varmit gun.

Does the origiunal post sound like were talking about feed store guns Lowell ?

And Bunko any day you wish to follow me in my steps come on up...I'll carry my 10.5 lb fowler you can bring your clapped out paper weight.

We may not choose to describe in English the movement of fluid steel under pressure as "walk" or "run," but the concept of the steel moving is logical, no matter what word for movement you choose. Concept words in one language often are not as limited as translation tries to make them.

6SXS
Member


Registered: February 21, 2006
Posts: 290
Loc: Andover MA Lauf is German "to walk or to run".
Stahl is German for steel.
I don't see that lauf can be translated to "fluid" but I'm always open to learning. I can't say that German is my thing, but if you Google "Krupp Laufstahl" you will find a lot of barrels are so marked, indicating that the barrels are constructed of that material: possibly a trademark or an idiom differentiating running or molten steel barrels from twist or damascus barrels.

I'll be right up jOe, thanks for the invite! I've just never met a man that would carry a 10.5 lb. gun on a long trek when he could carry a 6.25 lb. one. It's kind of like that guy that always climbed a tree when he wanted to tell a lie, when he could have just stayed on the ground and told the truth...no sense in it!!!

binko

Thanks Dean. Appreciate that you left off the "I" prefix that sometimes preceeds Savant. A boyhood chum inherited a nice lot of Payne, Leonard and Gillum rods- from a bachelor uncle whose last name was Paine. Like many of us, he got into a financial bind (nasty divorce) and needed to "liquidate" some of those Steinway cane rods-told me later, re his dealings with the "gentleman" in FL who we will not name herein (Libel suits are nasty too) that until you have been "screwed" by --- you don't know what "screwed" really means. I have heard of "buy low" and sell higher- the principle that keeps Jack Puglisis, Herschell Chadick and Bill Jaqua (now Ret'd.) in "the game", but it is one thing to make a fair profit (cover your overhead and have a little "extra") and quite another to be rapacious in your dealings.

We had a gent at an area gun club- had the Clark Gable look and charmed the garters off the area widows and picked up some fine guns at about 10% of what they were worth-and then bragged about his "conquests" later-smooth talking snake oil salesman. Strange thing- you being in a car dealership, you must know what happens to a Cadillac DeVille when the brake lines develop a "sudden leak"- he lost control of his Caddy on his way to some "special deal" the story goes- sooner or later, the crooks get their "come-uppance" even Satan has a special place next to Cerberus I hope, awaiting Senor B. Madoff--Fortunately, most gun collectors "network" and the word of a bad apple gets out, ditto the cane rod market.

Friend Walt Carpenter once told me most of the Paynes and other quality rods (Walt worked for Payne even when Jim died in the 1960's I believe) that he had for sale, some years ago, were snapped up by Japanese collectors who wouldn't know a set of Super-Z ferrules from a stripper guide with a cracked red agate insert- Such is life my friend--

RWTF, I have to point out that James Julia is not in the business of BUYING and selling guns. He is an auctioneer, and sells guns [and a myriad of other things] for consignors, very seldom [ far less than 1 %] for himself; and then mostly items that have been "bought in" and the consignor did not want them returned so he purchased them to clear accounting. I have been cataloging for him for the last three auctions, and know of what I speak. You should be more carefull.
Mal