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Rocket, just my casual observations from viewing Gunbroker and Auction Arms, and trying to compare the American guns using your system, I would say without a doubt that Parker carries the highest Brand Value BV of the American shotguns. Next in line comes the Fox, a recent surge over the last few years, past the LC Smith but that margin in BV is growing steadily. Winchester M21 next but by a slim margin and then we have LC Smith over Lefever's 'automatic hammerless' by the slimmest of margins and next but farther down on the list, a wider margin, the Ithaca.
So to be a bit more graphic
Parker

Fox
Winchester

LC Smith
Lefever Automatic Hammerless




Ithaca

In my humble opinion this is the way I see it, BV1 is Parker; BV2 Fox and Winchester; BV3 LC Smith and Lefever; and BV4 Ithaca

I totally agree.

George

Thanks George, I was expanding a little on your previous post!!! I know Gunbroker or Auction Arms may be limited viewing especially when it comes to the higher grade guns but the two guns that have seen the most brand value movement since I've been watching these sites are the Fox moving up and the LC Smith moving down.

Good start on BV. Could we say that all other USA makers, those not covered above, would be close enough in BV to label them BV5?

OK, now, can you attach any value factor to the BV1-4 levels, BV5 being 1?

The next question will be: Is there a common level or Original Quality grade across the BV1-5 envelope? For example, for OQ only, does a Trojan = Stirlingworth = plain M-21 = Field L.C./Lefever = Field Ithaca = ? Stevens = ?

Rocket, putting a bit more thought into this, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but, American shotguns may be a little tougher to categorize under the Brand Value stamp. The first problem I'm beginning to see is even though the names Parker, Fox or LC Smith are noted names within shotgunning circles what happens when someone steps out of that circle you run right smack into the name Winchester, a name know practically all over the world.

So, a Tonks would be a Brand Value 5 and an Original Quality 1, whereas a Fox would be a Brand Value 2 and an Original Quality 5.

Treblig1958: I mostly follow the auction results from: greg Martin, Bonham & Butterfields, James Julia, Rock Island Auction,J.C. Devine, & others. I see both investment grade & field grade Parkers and A.H. Fox steadily advancing in price. Less so with L.C. Smith, Ithaca and Lefever. I believe this is partially due to the fact that several new tomes have recently been published on Parker (The Parker Story & Ed's Shooting Flying)and McIntosh's A.H. Fox TFGITW. Nothing too recent on the other three. Winchester M-21 has held it's own but seems to have advanced but little.

Just My Opinion......George

Dig, it could be so. Remember, we must not try to use the name to define quality. How many people will pay more for the name "Tonks" on a gun? Clearly, they are scarce. But, are there yet enough people who recognize them to move desirability up with scarcity?

I see that, just shows how skewed the American collecting scene is towards name over quality eh?

Now, if only Parker made guns of the quality of a Schaffer! You could have it all.

Dig, understand "Americana" is hard, even for Americans. As you note, the pricing reflects something totally different from Brit made guns. That is why my systen did not "import" well to the USA made gun market. I think the basic approach will work, but the equations will be quite different.