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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,164 Likes: 11
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,164 Likes: 11 |
I am trying to identify for a friend,the Belgian maker of a high grade, custom pair of 16.G. B.L.E.shotguns. The guns have consecutive serial numbers. The top rib is engraved with the name "Monaco", There is no indication as to the actual maker.The guns have 30 inch barrels with side clips they are marked,Sheffield Steel. They are profusely engraved with rose and scroll,in addition they have a gold inlayed bird on the trigger guards,plus gold inlayed #1&2. The stocks are unusual in that they have inset leather cheek pads.
I am confident that they are not by Piotti or Salvinelli.Your suggestions as to possible maker[s] would be welcome.
Roy Hebbes
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,393
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,393 |
Pics? Proof marks? Roy, personally I have never heard of any barrels marked "Sheffield Steel" Sheffield is a town in England renowned for bladesmithing. I quite likely am wrong on this, of course. I too am confident they are not by Piotti or Salvinell. How do you know they are Belgian and not French? Or Monagasque?
Mike
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
Roy,
Can you post pictures? Especially of the flats and watertable.
Pete
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 865 Likes: 74
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 865 Likes: 74 |
Roy,
I have a high quality Belgian 20 bore SLE that has the "Sheffield " name stamped on the underside of the bbls.
I did some research on it a couple of years ago but came up empty handed and there is no makers name or ser # on mine
Claudio
The taste of poor quality lingers long after the cheap price is forgotten.........
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4 |
'ambassadeur', 'comte de paris', 'chambord', 'versailles',..... and perhaps 'monaco' too?  if indeed belgian i would guess lebeau-courally. 
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,164 Likes: 11
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,164 Likes: 11 |
The proof marks are Liege. The barrels on #2 gun have the following code mark, "AMTLICH RAUCHLOS ERPRUVT". Dose this marking offer any clue as to origin?
The serial #,s on these guns are in the 8000,s range this suggests a maker that was in business for some time.!
Roy Hebbes
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 15 |
The proof marks are Liege. The barrels on #2 gun have the following code mark, "AMTLICH RAUCHLOS ERPRUVT" (government smokeless prooved). Dose this marking offer any clue as to origin? 1890's, maybe? Anyway early in the development of nitro powders.
The serial #,s on these guns are in the 8000,s range this suggests a maker that was in business for some time.! I'd not bet on that. Rather, the parts from a supplier that was in business for some time. The guns may well have been bought as proved barreled actions and finished up in the cottage section of the gun trade; "guild guns". I'd bet against Lebeau as he would have marked then; his name had BV from early on. Likely commissioned by someone with good knowledge of the trade and bought a a bargain price.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,768 Likes: 115
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,768 Likes: 115 |
Marked 'Monaco' makes me think that they are live pigeion trap guns as Monaco was a popular venue for this type of shooting. Never seen barrels marked Sheffield steel. Sheffield is a steel making town which specialises in fine cutlery and flatware. It's steel is well renowned to be of high grade. Lagopus.....
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 349
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 349 |
Marked 'Monaco' makes me think that they are live pigeion trap guns as Monaco was a popular venue for this type of shooting. I too thought about the possibility of them being live pigeon guns for the same reason, but was it usual to build them in pairs? Origin of the Monte Carlo stock? I cannot ever imagine guns being manufactured there! There was only a Riva boatyard and a perfume manufactury (Coty?) when I first went there. Sheffield is a steel making town which specialises in fine cutlery and flatware. It's steel is well renowned to be of high grade. Lagopus..... Don't forget Heavy Metal (as in Def Lepperd) :). We won't talk footy! Rs, K.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,164 Likes: 11
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,164 Likes: 11 |
The Alfa Catalogue of 1911[ Perhaps the largest catalogue of guns etc; that has ever been published,700 pages],List a gunmaker"Rekord". Pictured is a hand made shotgun of best quality,model,"Monaco". The gun is of similar design to the guns I am researching. Has any one knowledge of the gun maker, Rekord?
Roy Hebbes
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