doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com J.P. Sauer & Sohn 20 - Deal or No Deal

Raimey, are you suggesting it may have been ordered for the SS? Goering set up pre-war Gestapo and I think he led it briefly. By 1944 he was out of Hitler's favour.

Could it have been issued as a Luftwaffe survival gun? I know there were some of those issued to aircrews; can't recall whether all were drillings or some just sxs.

The lengthened chambers and Miller trigger sound as if they were probably done on this side of the pond. Gun quite likely "liberated" by some GI at the end of the war.

If it had not been messed with and if indeed it had some special Luftwaffe connection, it might have collector's value. But it's been turned into a shooter, and that's how it should be priced.

King Brown:

I'm not suggesting it yet, but I wanted to make an awareness of specific marks like the rune, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sowilo_rune , in case they are present on the longarm. I've seen single runes on a Simson/Iver Johnson double and thought it to be tied to the Hitler Youth.

True Goering, http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history.do?action=Article&id=6618 , was out of favor with Hitler in 1944, but he went back to one of his true loves, hunting/being a forester, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Goering#G.C3.B6ring.27s_private_army . I've seen his name being associated with "Head Forester" but usually it denotes something dark like this: "For one thing, there are biographical reasons. Before the war I read On the Marble Cliffs ([Die Marmorklippen]), when I was practically still a child, because my father had read it. It was considered a resistance book. There was a strange parallel for me. One character in On the Marble Cliffs is the Head Forester, i.e., the chief of state terror. And the "Head Forester" was a name for Hitler that was common in the Ore Mountains ([Erzgebirge]). They called him the Head Forester, not Göring. Hitler was the Head Forester, and then somehow it shifted and then Göring was the Head Forester, of course. And suddenly this name was used for Hitler too." from http://muller-kluge.library.cornell.edu/en/video_transcript.php?f=108 .

One last note is that some of the German scattergun's forcing cones appear rough and rather lengthy and I wouldn't challenged the 65mm until a measurement is made to the forcing cone. And it is the Miller that makes it a puzzle.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

So far as I know, all Luftwaffe aircrew survival guns were drillings.

It does seem like a Luftwaffe gun though, possibly ordered for gunnery training then liberated and brought to the US by some GI. Then it was modified with the Miller single rigger and had the chambers bored out.

Pity about the changes....

Quailnut

Are you sure it is not just the commercial eagle N proof? I have several commercial Sauer shotguns made late in the war including one that was proofed in March 1945

i would venture to say that's what he is looking at, but some members are giving him false hope.

Did the commercial eagle proof include a swastika?

Well unfortunately the mystery will stay just that... a mystery. I went back down to the pawnshop today with my digital camera and the gun had been purchased. I asked the manager if it was bought by a local that he was familiar with (in hopes that I might still get a picture or two). But it was not. Buyer was from Columbus and not a local collector. I'm sorry that I couldn't follow through. But gained some valuable insight as always.

p.s. Definetly a swastika under the eagle on both the watertable and the barrel flats.

As per the June 7th, 1939 published law and April 1st, 1940 effective date, Eagle over FB, M, SP, J & N did not include a swastika. I'm pretty sure that the proofhouses didn't have a swastika proofmark. On the Sauer Model 30 drillings the Luftwaffe eagle and swastika were quite a bit larger than the Eagle over N as well as appear to be flying with the swastika and were on the right scattergun tube(top tube on the Model 33 O/U) and the right side of the stock.

Ironman5:

Were the tubes a shade under 27 inches, say 68.5 cm and was there crosshatching between the tubes at the muzzle? Did it have sling swivels?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, You are exactly right. They were just a hair over 27". Not more than 27 - 1/8". And yes it had crosshatching between the tubes, but no swivels.