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#135940 02/15/09 11:53 AM
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what dors 18.3 and 18.4 mean in todays language....?

full..? modified..? etc.

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From http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...ge=4#Post135688 your right barrel is marked 18.4 which is the standard Belgian 12g bore size of .724" (US usually .729") and likely cylinder or no choke constriction. Your left barrel is marked 18.3 which is .7205", or a constriction of only .0035" or about skeet. Odd in that lots of Belgian guns are choked cylinder and full. BUT the barrels could have been honed or choke reamed since 1951 so the only way to know is to measure both the bore and the choke constriction.

Last edited by revdocdrew; 02/15/09 12:12 PM.
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My 26-inch 12ga special-order VLD 1899 Francotte with Siemens Martin Steel has two choke markings on each barrel. Closest to the flats is 17.9 over 18.4 on the right barrel and 17.7 over 18.4 on the left barrel. Adjacent outside these marks is 17.9 over 18.2 on the right barrel and 17.6 over 18.2 on the left barrel. The muzzle measures .710 right and .700 left (modified and full). I'd appreciate comment/speculation concerning the two markings for each barrel, please.

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17.6 = .693" and 17.9 = .705"
1898-1910 the choke & bore stamp was "Choke 18.2 17.6"
The choke over bore stamp was used 1910-1924.
I wonder if the 17.9 & 17.6 over 18.2 were the original dimensions, and it was reproofed and restamped after the barrel and chokes were honed?

Last edited by revdocdrew; 02/15/09 04:27 PM.
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I haven't looked this up in a while so going from memory but I recall that when only one marking is given it is for bore dia, thus the 18.4 & 18.3 would simply mean a slight variation in bore dia between the bbls & not specify choke. When the amount of choke is specified then the two numbers are given. I have no knowledge of two sets of numbers but suspect you are correct on a re-proof here with enlarged dimensions.


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You might be correct Miller; found another example


Last edited by revdocdrew; 02/15/09 07:01 PM.
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I wish I knew more about this, Miller and revdocdrew. A light, 26-inch barrelled grouse gun (?) with chokes opened and re-proofed to M/F? I'm thinking of opening the chokes but not sure of what I've got. More than six years here and I don't know what to say to the 'smith! My school report cards always came home with teacher's comment, "Kingsley would do better if he paid attention."

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Everyone should own a bore micrometer. I know they are expensive and am I glad I got mine many years ago. Not blowing the $ on one not so good gun will save you the price of the mic ten times over or even lots more. I take mine to gunshows and it has saved me thousands at a single bound. I really detest meatheads that backbore Perazzis.
Also knowing that numbers like 18.4 stamped on a Euro gun is probably a measurement in mm. And there are 25.4 of those little buggers in every inch. If there isn't a guide to continental choke markings in the faq there maybe should be. A basic one at any rate.

HTH

WtS


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Originally Posted By: King Brown
More than six years here and I don't know what to say to the 'smith!


Don't feel bad King - until the gun has been miked, there is no way you COULD know what to say to a 'smith.

Unless you acquired a gun from its original owner, whom you trust when he/she says the bbls have never been messed w/, you can't be 100% sure that the chokes marked on a gun are accurate. This is true whether the gun is 6 months or 75 years old.

Show me dealer who doesn't own a mike and I'll show you a dealer who has to say 'I don't know' when asked about chokes on a used gun - or risk being dead wrong.

The brass end of bbl inserts, reputed to indicate chokes, are a wonderful idea IF bore diameters never varied more than a thousandth of an inch. That's not the case, however, so such devices are really useless except as paper weights.

Thus (pay attention !) you have to mike the bbls.

Some will say you can count pellets in circles on boards @ varying distances - and you can - but in the end, gunsmiths measure and adjust bbls based on thousandths of an inch of constriction. When you know those #s for your gun you'll know exactly what to say (or not) to a gunsmith.

FYI - there are lots of gunsmiths capable of doing quality choke work. I ship my Francotte bbls to Briley in Houston and I've never been disappointed w/ their work.

If you don't have access to a mike w/i driving distance, you could ship your bbls to such a gunsmith to mike them and report the #s to you. Then you could decide if you want to adjust them or not.

http://www.hallowellco.com/choke_chart.htm

Might be of help, too.




Always looking for small bore Francotte SxS shotguns.
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I believe the two different markings on each barrel are due to how the proof house rounds the numbers. If the bore is 18.31 mm it gets a 18.3mm stamp. and if it's more than 18.35mm it gets the 18.4mm.
As 2-piper said, these should relate only to bore diameter, and you would need to get the muzzle diameter to determine choke

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