doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Wood Extension

I am currently working on a wood extension and am having a problem.

I used a scrap piece of walnut off another gun that matches the stock well, attached it with 3/8" wooden dowels, wood glued it in place and then clamped the extension down so it was tight. After it dried, I reshaped the extension, sanding it down to an exact fit. I then wiskered the stock, stained it, sealed it, and filled the pore just and any minute gaps in the extension just as I would if I were filling the pores (using the sand in method).

Here is my problem. As I began to apply the final coats of finish (Tru-oil) everything looked perfect. The separation between the two pieces of wood looked like a thin line under a thin coat of glass -simply beautiful. But then, on the last coat, for some reason the stock swelled just enough to break the finish and I can barely catch a finger nail on it as I rub my finger across it. I re-sanded this side and started to apply the finish again, when this also began to happen on the other side (to a lesser degree, but still there nonetheless). The strange thing is, this is only happening on the sides of the stock. The heal and toe are still as smooth as silk.

I assume this is happening due to moisture in the air, the moisture in the stock, and the difference in density between the two woods, although both pieces are walnut. The swelling is almost unnoticeable unless you run your finger over it. You can barely feel it.

So, where did I go wrong?

Don't forget to seal the endgrain at the butt. If you don't, moisture can enter there and swell the extension.

You didn't go wrong. Wood is always moving, and because of humidity and dis-similar wood grain and density this is what happens.
There was a thread not to long ago about this same topic. I did the same thing you did. Mine the stock was cut 1 1/2" and a recoil pad and extension was put on. I hate recoil pads and especially the look of that one. So I used a piece of walnut and I only fastened it on with two long screws, no glue no dowels and finished it. This way, at some other time if I want I could find a better suited piece of figured walnut to match more closely.

Would drilling out the center of the extension minimise the dimensional change?

Perhaps try epoxy instead of wood glue.

Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on how the grain lies in relationship to the wood. It could grow inwards, or shrink inwards or the other way around.

As far as epoxy, I use Tite Bond 11 or 111 in a lot of wood working projects, the later being a more water proof/resistant type glue. I have purposely broken some glued up wood either end to end or edge to edge and have never had one break on the glue joint.
Some expoxies are tinted and have a thicker consistancy then wood glues and you will see a marked difference in the joint.

David, Attached are a couple butt extension my brother crafted. Watching the process, he always has his moisture meter out checking the material. Depending on whether a permanent extension or removeable for further change in LOP or Pitch, it can be epoxied (not glue) or only screwed in. I've seen and used both and either proceedure results in a functional and solid buttplate. A piece of wood the size of an extension wouldn't have enough length in grain structure to twist and turn like a waterlogged rifle stock. Change in humidity might be enough to swell the wood cells at the juncture. Below: The radiused extension ( on a LC grade #1 20ga.)is partially complete with additional work being a scrimshaw grouse etching in the bone inlays, final carving of the ebony inlays, stock bent to fit, checkering, and hand rubbed finish. Standard extension is on a LC Ideal, not complete.
Good luck. Lots of great guns can be put functionally and aesthetically back in the game. Randy

David, that's a good question. The same thing has happened to me and a friend of mine more than once. Wish someone could say what the cure is. I've taken mine down twice, and although not as bad as yours, you can barely feel it with your finger. Paul

Thanks for all the responses. Sometimes, its good to know you are not alone.

I have let the stock sit inside the house and the surfaces are returning to where they once were. I can only notice a small 1/2" spot when I run my finger over the separation. I am going to finish the stock and the butt end completely and let it be.

RMC, those are beautiful butt extensions. Does you brother have a website?

thanks again,

d

David, thanks for asking. Glens site is (mccune-art.com) Site shows his talent, his passion is vintage SXS's.

RMC ... I really like the workmanship in the second photo. But, tell me, how would that look affect value on a older gun? I guess that the short stock makes the gun worth less already. But with a change like that, that breaks away from cobventional thinking, would I be the last owner of that gun? Or would it add value? {I had a Francott Knockabout recheckered in a "fishscale" pattern to give me a better grip in bad weather and when I posted photos online, I was blasted for breaking away from conventionality}. I know of a nice smallbore gun with a short stock and a hideous 2 1/2" ebony extension on it. And to my eye, what your brother did would look great on this gun. And, I don't mind being the last owner of this gun, but I don't like the thought that I "WILL" be the last owner. If you can understand my internal thoughts.

So, what does everyone think ??

I have an Elsie Ideal with one of Glenn's short extensions (similar to the top pic). I had planned on replacing it with a pad at some point, but it has grown on me, and it is a conversation piece. I can always add the pad replacement later if I want to, but it would have to be a 1-1/2" Silvers to get the LOP I want. I think Glenn's work is more attractive than the big Silvers, although less conventional.

If you have a gun that NEEDS something like the extension in the top picture, then the gun doesn't have much resale potential anyway, and is not even shootable. So, why not do it?

Thanks for the comments. Next step for these guns if not the extensions you see is a thick ugly pad, or a complete restock. As mentioned, my budget cannot buy the original unaltered gun or have the work done to redo entirely. I've shot dozens of guns worked on by my brother. Biased as I am, the work is masterful, functional and miles ahead of the hideous extensions it replaced. The radiused LC #1 wood is going to be a piece of art. A look at Glens work reveals a continuity of shape and design to add to the gun and not take away from it. I would love to have a totally redone original looking vintage SXS, but not in the cards for me. This has to do. The next owner of my guns is going to have the option of restocking or leaving as is. To extend the uniqueness of the gun work Glen makes custom gun cases as shown below to compliment the gun it's made for. Not to knock the leather bound designs available. This is individualized with original artwork on the outside,on the accessory box and a handpainted Parker logo on the lid. What does the case carry? An extremely worn 1906 VH Parker, 28" with CYL/IC choke. A piece of history without a redo back to its original condition. A tribute to a working gun.......Last photo, To add to the unconventional, look what we do to perfectly good rifles. Raven Stalking Rifles are light, fast handling and quick as a fine upland SXS. How long before the BBS cops drop by and who will it be?? Randy

Not Off Topic, but should move it to "For Sale" forum I guess. A retired gunsmith gave me a small assortment of older recoil pads, and some walnut butt sections that would work for an extension. Not as beautiful as RMC's brother does, but for a field grade gun- servicable. I also have a repaired buttstock pg no cap with a Ithaca sunburst recoil pad- believe it is for a Ithaca LeFever Nitro Special- assuming they were a bolt on design with a through bolt, like the Model 12.

I had a butt section cut off a 1910 era Parker DH 12 gauge- sold the skeleton buttplate and screws several years ago to a gentleman in WI who was "refinishing" an older 12 VH-wanted to "upgrade" the butt (Oprah and Aretha Franklin might pay heed to that) and I used that fine piece of walnut with the checking still intact to extend the buttstock of a friend's 1924 nickel steel barrel Model 12- a 12 gauge with solid rib- some numnutz had shortened the stock and cut it off straight (90 degrees) with no pitch (usually 4 degrees) from heel to toe).

DD - I'm not speaking from exacting experience here, but from a mix of similar situations and theory. It would seem to me that an approach from mortise & tenon joinery would be in order. When you use a flat joint with a solid extension piece, the solid piece is its own object and has the possibility to swell and shrink independent of the stock. The glue joint is not strong enough to exactly matcch the shrink/swell of the stock and the extension. Osmotic forces can be very high; the ancients used dry wooden wedges driven into small undercuts in stone to crack off construction size chunks and shapes. When the wedges were wetted, osmotic pressure exerted sufficient force to split the stone.

So, hollow the extension piece with a thin rimmed mortise. Cut the butt to a matching tenon. This should reduce the shrink/swell of the extension and provide sufficinet glue areaa to force the extension to match the butt's shrink/swell. Along the same vein of ideas, hollowing the butt should reduce its shrink/swell, also. If the mismatch in shrink/swell is severe, the mortise rim could crack. Therefore, I recommend that the mortise be made in the extension as a cracked extension seems less of an issue than a cracked stock. It may also be that extensions must be closely matched as to wood species and grain orientation.

Hope that gives something to consider.