doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Lead shot ban in Washington

Larry, for official lies have a look at "Intrepid's Last Case" by William Stevenson (his biographer, no relation) US best seller, Book of The Month Club, Ballantine, Main Selection of the History Book Club, Library of Congress Catalogue Number: 83-48077. It takes up with Igor Gouzenko where "A Man called Intrepid" left off. I ran a few errands for CIA---not covert intelligence---where I had better access in dark places (including two jails holding Americans and domiciled working for Americans)), and Gouzenko autographed the hood I made from a pillowcase for his first TV interview in the 60s. My time was post-Intrepid; CIA was a two-way street. I wonder how much of McCarthy's damage could have been prevented if Gouzenko had been handled professionally.

I've heard of the 2nd Intrepid book, but have not read it. Just finished "The Irregulars: Roald Dahl and the British Spy Ring in Wartime Washington", by Jennet Conant. She straightens out Stevenson's earlier version of the map (photo shown in "A Man Called Intrepid" of a map that was "taken from a German agent"): "On this occasion, Stephenson may have outdone himself, passing the forgery on to Donovan who gave it to Roosevelt." All in the good cause of trying to get us into the war sooner, or at least more prepared for war--which I indeed believe was a good cause.

The Canadians nearly blew it with Gouzenko. The Russians almost got him before he got away. But he gave us one of the first big breaks against them in the Cold War.

The CIA was one of the few agencies in the US government that stood up to McCarthy. While there certainly was a Communist threat at that time, most of what he did was shameful.

...who said RWTF has left us?

Larry and King, Why dont you guys go play "mine is bigger than yours" in the misfires forum?......You have impressed enough of us, we dont need any more....Maybe we can get back on the lead shot issue.......

LD, posts do sometimes get "diverted". And if you'll notice, King and I aren't bashing away at each other any more. Not to mention the fact that if you look back at the start of this whole thread, I made one of the few really substantive posts about a lead shot ban, referring to the report from the MN DNR's Nontoxic Shot Advisory Committee. At some point, probably before too long, I'm likely to do an article on the "dangers" posed by lead shot. But since I'm still in the information-gathering phase, LD, if you have something substantive to contribute, I'm all ears.

Larry one of the arguments for banning lead is that the predators up the food chain get poisoned by eating the lead when they feed on their prey.

I wonder if anyone has done research on the Shield Eagles in Argentina? They hang around the dove shooting fields and feed on the dove. If they don't have a lead problem I would think that would eliminate an argument for the ban of lead.

Best,

Mike

And I was sort of hunting for a Washington lead---not lead, Last Dollar. There are members who are knowledgeable about the Oleg Penkovsky papers which touched on a still-unrevealed American who worked for Moscow in highly-placed Washington. There may be a Canadian connection. I've been working on the story on-and-off for more than 25 years. Stuff turns up sometimes in the strangest places. I apologize again for exercising a personal off-topic interest on the board.

In my opinion there is no need for anyone to apologise, the content was erudite, usually polite and interesting.
I won’t debate guns with LB because he knows much more about them than I do; I gave up debating US foreign policy with him because he has had a career in “plausible denial” and further debate gives him an excuse to write stuff that some of the rednecks here want to read. Does not mean I do not enjoy many of his posts, though.
K.

Not directly related to this conversation, but relevant nonetheless since the lead ban began with the California Condor.

Here is a little story I found very interesting in regards to the lead ban and the condor. This is taken directly from the California Condor Conservation website.

cacondorconservation.org/content/blog/conservation-challenges/2008/“junk-food”/

“Junk food”

Posted at 12:16 am February 7, 2008 by Bill Toone

Condors are curious creatures and attracted to shiny objects. When rearing their young, they look for solid material to feed their young to help in development. Decades ago, they used to select bits of bone. Now, they have more interesting choices … glass, bottle caps, pop-tops, etc. discarded by humans.

Young condors are unable to digest or regurgitate these items and perish. CRES scientists are trying to teach zoo-reared condors to make the right choices and also providing sterilized bone in feeding areas.

What can I do?
Dispose of trash properly
Remove and dispose of trash you encounter on the trail

----

Now, put two and two together. Condors living around military bases such as Camp Roberts and Ft. Hunter Liggett which have tons and tons of expended ammunition, bullet fragments, and other hazardous waste are feeding their young "glass, bottle caps, pop-tops," to which you could add to that list "expended ammunition" and "bullet fragments". The source for lead ammunition needed to make condors sick needs to be large and cannot not belong to the occasional hunter's lost bullet or lost deer. Rather, a more realistic source for the massive amounts of easily accessible bullet fragments needed to poison condors must come from sources like large scale military bases and shooting ranges.

Kerryman, my last couple decades in the intelligence business were spent as a strategic analyst, and as commander of strategic analysis units. Intelligence analysts search for the best available evidence, politics be damned. The best intelligence analysts are in the business of speaking truth--or what they believe to be the truth--to power, without any sort of political filter on their views. Any intelligence analyst who allows politics to influence his conclusions needs to find himself another job--immediately.

Mike, eagles were used as the "poster birds" for the switch to nontox on waterfowl. They tend to hang around water, and there certainly was evidence that eagles were eating unrecovered ducks and geese, thereby ingesting lead. However, that is far less likely to happen with upland game, mainly because--even if you're hunting pheasants and not ducks--you're already required to use nontox in most wetland areas. And eagles are far less likely to feast upon an unrecovered pheasant in 160 acres of CRP than they are if the same bird is left lying near a marsh or lake. Also, the eagle population has increased dramatically since the switch to nontox for waterfowl. In other words, the steps we've already taken pretty well solved the problem with eagles. Switching to nontox for upland game is imposing a solution to a problem that does not really seem to exist. Yet the idiots in CA want to expand the lead ban to the entire state--most of which is outside the condor range.

King, has anyone ever connected the Penkovskiy lead to Anatoli Golitsyn's "Sasha"? The search for Sasha appears to have done far more harm than good, at least where CIA was concerned.