doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Lead shot ban in Washington

Surprisingly, we got this far in initial posts and responses, and no one has yet chimed in with agreement that lead ammo bans are good. Maybe we are finally waking up to this backdoor approach to gun control... or maybe it is just still too early in this thread. Equally surprising is that some fool hasn't complained that we are wasting his and the worlds' time and bandwidth by posting this here rather than on the new Misfires Forum section. After all, what does the banning of lead shot have to do with doubleguns?

If they could just see how much lead shot is flung around at an English driven game shoot, and has been for the last 150 years, and then see just how healthy the bird life is then they might realise just how low the risk is. The same at our local clay club; the pheasants there even come out pecking around about fifty yards in front of some of the stands while the shooting is ongoing and they are all healthy. Lagopus.....

It's a proposed legislation and the public comment period ends Feb 20. Don't roll over and just accept it. It's better to go down fighting. Tell your friends and protest. Another ominous 2nd amendment infringement is comming in the form of ammo serialization that we will all have to fight against. They are trying first with handgun ammo but you know they won't stop there. Check it out it's for your state also. http://ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm

King, I know you like to bash your neighbors south of the border, but you ought to be factual when you do so. I have purchased a gun in England and had it sent across the sea. It was not particularly hard to buy, but it took me 6 weeks to get the improved import permit back from ATF, and from what I've read from others here, I got pretty fast service.

I can buy a long gun in any state and take it home with me, crossing all kinds of state borders, with only a phone call from the dealer selling it to do the required background check. (Unless the state law prohibits said transaction where I make the purchase, but relatively few do.) Because I have a concealed carry permit (are those easy to get in Canada?), I can buy ANY gun in my home state and take it home without any phone call whatsoever.

Which restrictions do we have on civil liberties that are not found in other countries, King? I think you've been OD'ing on the US liberal media. I've lived abroad, and even as a diplomat, I was under greater restrictions than I am in the US. Had to have a firearms owners card, and I couldn't own anything except a shotgun.

Great Britain has far greater restrictions on firearms ownership. They also have the Official Secrets Act, which means that ANYONE who reveals classified information--including the media--can be prosecuted. We have no equivalent of that in the United States, and frankly, I'd like to see penalties for the media when they knowingly disclose classified information.

Following WWII, most of the Allies demobilized to a far greater extent than did the United States. And then, for about 45 years during the Cold War, the United States paid a disproportionate part of the burden of defending Western Europe (and Canada) from potential attack by the Soviet Union. It still takes the United States to get anything done internationally, when any sort of significant military force is required. Witness Bosnia and Kosovo. The Europeans couldn't even handle that problem--right in their own backyard--without us.

Bashing the United States is a popular sport in places like Western Europe and Canada. Almost makes me wish we'd abandoned those folks to the gentle mercies the Russkies exercised over Eastern Europe following WWII.

For several years, Illinois has had a "steel requirement" for dove hunting in many state-owned public hunting areas. I'm not sure if it is statewide?

It doesn't seem to be much of an impediment, as the hunting areas are still full during opening week. I don't think it i a big deal...

The local sportng goods stores sell steel #6's and #7's.

JERRY

Larry, I'm surprised you say I bash the US and even enjoy it. It's not my nature and I make it a point not to bash persons or publics under any circumstances out of common courtesy. I would be pleased if you would provide evidence otherwise.

What I don't like is sniping at members here, as you did with "rolling over" on gun ownership. From questions here relating to US transactions it appeared to me that there was more red tape than in Canada; that was my point.

Canada does not have a Patriot Act with its unprecedented intrusions of privacy, and one need not OD on the liberal media to know of America's dramatic U-turn by rescinding its violations of federal and international laws concerning civil rights.

Declarations by your Supreme Court and President of a "return to the rule of law," of engaging with more humility than hubris in diplomacy, have been broadcast to the world. To remind you of this is not bashing, Larry.

A duty of friendship is straight talk.

(I apologize to all members for getting away from the Washington shot ban.)

Larry,
I cannot believe that you have sat and wrote that garbage.
Your diplomatic service has obviously brainwashed you.You are of course entitled to your opinion. But please, be factual.We may be a little Island, we may have been stripped of our wealth but we still have more bravery and military tactical knowledge than you are giving us credit for.I often sit on the sidelines and watch our Superpower Cousins get into scrapes, then hear we are being deployed to assist.
It reminds me of Stan & Olly. "Another fine mess you've got me into". Witness Iraq & Afghanistan, George and Tony are out of it now but I am still up to my a$$ in it. Thanks mate.

Sorry Guys,
Touch of the Red Mist.
No we have no real documentry evidence of the harm that Lead shot does.But we did roll over and accept a Toxic shot ban.
Our National organisation here in the UK, the BASC agreed to a ban on Lead shot when a suitable alternative was economical and available.At this point in time it is not available.I do believe that if the shot manufacturers really wanted to they could come up with a viable alternative.But it suits their marketing to have more expensive alternatives available.
Why do they not provide plastic coated lead shot in a plentiful supply? both components are available. I know there is plastic coated shot available but not in a plentiful quantity.
But I will finish by asking the question I always ask.
Where is the conclusive evidence that Lead is so bad?
We have fields here that are saturated with spent shot, and soon we will be rearing next years Pheasants on that land, and they will peck and grub out an existence, mature and grow and fly strongly and healthily over the guns next Fall.

Wow, did I poke a sleeping dog or what? Thanks for the vocal and spirited support. Myself and my daughter have spoken up, in addition I will attend the public hearing meeting.

Now onto the second part of my question. I have several 20guage doubles that are older and shoot low pressure 2-1/2" shells. Is there a commercially available non-tox shell that is safe in these weapons? I cannot see myself buying flats of bismuth due to cost. I will have to burn through several flats of lead shells this year, (good excuse to get out). Rob.

Rob,
I would have thought there is not a commercially available cartridge available cheaper than Bismuth. ( I do not consider soft Iron )My favourite is Tungsten Matrix.
Please go to the Public hearing, note the emminent scientists present, listen to their theories, note their reference material, engage them in debate and watch them shuffle and squirm when you point out the various flaws in their theories.Do your research my friend and step forth armed with knowledge and truth.You will sleep a contented man on that night.The very best of good fortune is sent to you.In all the research I have read, saying how Lead kills birds, I have never seen photographs of this devastating waste, floating down the River, lying dead on the lakeside.I have many river keepers as friends and they too have not witnessed this disaster here in the UK.
Do any of you have hard evidence from the US?