doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Braised ribs vs soft soldered ribs

Miller,
It's been over 45 years since I last sat in a chemistry class but I do recall that metallic elements can be listed on an activity chart, from most to least active. Memory tells me that lead is a more active metal than tin, so I would assume that it would be attacked by the bluing salts more vigorously than tin would. Maybe someone younger than we old geezers, who has not been away from school so long, will chime in here.
After I posted this, I remembered that we live in the "Google' age, so I did a search and came up with the chart below. I was wrong, tin is MORE active than lead.





The metal activity series. Most active (most strongly reducing) metals appear on top, and least active metals appear on the bottom. displace H2 from water, steam, or acids

Li 2 Li(s) + 2 H2O() 2 LiOH(aq) + H2(g)
K 2 K(s) + 2 H2O() 2 KOH(aq) + H2(g)
Ca Ca(s) + 2 H2O() Ca(OH)2(s) + H2(g)
Na 2 Na(s) + 2 H2O() 2 NaOH(aq) + H2(g)
displace H2 from steam or acids
Mg Mg(s) + 2 H2O(g) Mg(OH)2(s) + H2(g)
Al 2 Al(s) + 6 H2O(g) 2 Al(OH)3(s) + 3 H2(g)
Mn Mn(s) + 2 H2O(g) Mn(OH)2(s) + H2(g)
Zn Zn(s) + 2 H2O(g) Zn(OH)2(s) + H2(g)
Fe Fe(s) + 2 H2O(g) Fe(OH)2(s) + H2(g)
displace H2 from acids only
Ni Ni(s) + 2 H+(aq) Ni2+(aq) + H2(g)
Sn Sn(s) + 2 H+(aq) Sn2+(aq) + H2(g)
Pb Pb(s) + 2 H+(aq) Pb2+(aq) + H2(g)
H2


For those who have forgotten their high school chemistry, reading from the top is : lithium, potassium, calcium, sodium, magnesium, aluminum, manganese, zinc, iron, nickle, tin, and lead.

Mike Bonner I was Castro County Spelling Bee Champion Runner-Up, two years in a row. I am sure if I had been the Champion I would have spelled substantially substantially correct.

Not only did I not know what I was talking about in reference to brazing and silver soldering you found a spelling error in my post. I went back to the post, struck through "substantilly" and added substantially.

When I post here I really should just stick to making fun of Joe Wood as it is the only thing I am really good at - and I have so much material to work with.

Best,

Mike

Yes. Brownell's sells a very low temperature solder for exactly this kind of repair. I've used it a few times with satisfactory resulets. I'd gurss it is not quire as durable as the higher temperature solders, but will likely last until the ribs need relaying or it can be redone repeatedly.

A couple of questions for those that know more about this barrel stuff than I do (that includes most everyone).

1. Is there an easy method to determine if barrels have been assembled using low temperature soldering or high temperature brazing ("without" putting a torch to them--lol)? I know if you can see a brass colored line in between the barrels/ribs and/or brass at the muzzle, then the gun has been brazed, but what about all silver at the end of the muzzle?

2. Also, I have seen some doubles that have small holes or spaces (and some not so small) in between the barrels, top rib, and the lower rib at the muzzle end from a lack of solder. I am pretty confident that the barrels have not been cut or altered because the chokes are present, barrel length is standard, and barrels themselves are touching. Is this lack of solder considered a problem or a defect in regards to longevity or performance? Or is it just an aesthetics issue? Should guns that have this issue be repaired?

Thanks for your responses in advance and I'll take my answer off the air.

david

On the repairing of a loose rib without removing and re-laying it, I can add what I've learned a little about. First, the loose rib may have left an un-tinned surface that may or may not be corroded.

If you are lucky, it may still be tinned. If it is still tinned, simply wire it back together as you would a completely new soldering, with some rosin flux in the joint, then heat with a torch until a fillet of solder forms.

I see no advantage to introducing a lower temp solder. I used to be concerned about undoing whats left of the original solder joints. No longer. Wiring it all properly is easy enough and assures that you can sleep at night...and heat the barrels without worry of unsoldering the original joints.

From my little knothole, I think it's more likely the surface of one part or the other or maybe both, is likely not suitable to solder without cleaning and tinning. This would prevent a solder bond in that area and prevent a local fix.

Re telling if a gun is soft or hard soldered. Take a piece of a broken hacksaw blade, about 6 or 8 inches long. Grind all of the teeth off of it. On the end opposite the hole, carefully grind a hook in the side, shaped like an eagle's beak. Stone away whatever burrs the grinding raises on the flat sides of the blade. On an inconspicuous area of the gun, like under the forearm, draw the point of the "beak" along the joint between the rib and the barrel, using moderate pressure. If it's soft soldered, this tool will curl up a lovely silver-coloured thread of solder behind it. If the gun is silver-soldered, or brazed, with a bit heavier pressure applied to the tool, it will raise a brass-coloured thread. Works like a charm!